Why do people buy Holdens?

[Polyal]

Ok, firstly, lets try and keep this under control, its not a holden bashing thread.

Why do people buy Holdens? If you look at every article in the Press, Ford are better in every attribute other than outright pace. Sporty Holdens might stay flat through corners, but for everyday driving they are to harsh and jutter all over the place.

So, its outright performance the reason commodores still outsell falcons? Is it a culture thing?

One reason that I have is, for example, at high school there were only a handful of Fords guys (for what ever reason), everyone wanted a commodore. And as we were getting our first cars, it was either a VL or a VN. At the time we were getting smashed in the V8 Supercars and things were going bad in general with AU, which was hard because the e-series was very popular, and actually out sold commodore if I am not mistaken.

So, these young guys drive commodores, and when everntually its time to buy a new car what do they buy? A new commodore of course.

Has anyone else got there theories?

If you look at it objectively Ford are better at everything:

NVH - Ford
Dynamics - Ford
Interior Style/Comfort/usage - Ford
Performance - Holden (but other than LS2 we are not really that far behind)

It just doesn't make any sense. Ford have picked up there marketing within the last 12 months or so. They have some great ideas but IMO just do not use them enough.

Like I said, lets try and keep this one on topic as it will be interesting to see what people think, Holden guys included, why did you buy your commodore/monaro?

EDIT: I delibrately kept styling out of it because thats personal not objective. And AU guys please dont get snakey at any referance to the AU being a sales nightmare.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Like I said, lets try and keep this one on topic as it will be interesting to see what people think, Holden guys included, why did you buy your commodore/monaro?

another in the myriad of posts that will end in a pear shaped mess. All been said and done to death. it's personal preference, there is nothing new to discuss! I give it 3 replies before the my choice is better than your choice descent.

The Teapot is scrambled and in a state of readiness!!

Edit: revision within 1 post.

[parawolf]

Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday.

Goes a long way to explaining the problem. AU's were ugly in some peoples eyes. Ford hasn't performed, apart from the past 3 years, all that well in the local competition. Styling on the Holdens attract younger people. Advertising on the Holden's are aimed at younger people.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

another in the myriad of posts that will end in a pear shaped mess. All bee said and done to death. it's personal preference, there is nothing new to discuss! I give it 3 replies before the my choice is better than your choice descent.

The Teapot is scrambled and in a state of readiness!!

Well we can try at least! Nothing like positive thinking :togo:

Originally Posted by parawolf

Goes a long way to explaining the problem. AU's were ugly in some peoples eyes. Ford hasn't performed, apart from the past 3 years, all that well in the local competition. Styling on the Holdens attract younger people. Advertising on the Holden's are aimed at younger people.

But does motorsport have such an influence on your base cars? I know they are there for aspirational reasons.

Why does the corrolla dominant the small car market (even market in general, has nothing to do with sedans I know but you get my point). The only racing it does is in the ARC, and no one watches that.

[fauxpas]

My mate reckons the VN commodore is the best ever aussie car... and he's serious!!!

I reckon the VN/VP was the worst aussie car ever made and may even be globally the worst car ever made. Build quality is non existent, the roof falls on your head, the window seals drop into the door wells, the dash turns 5 colours of grey, interior plastics randomly crack for no reason, the head gasket explodes if you don't use holden's own coolant, there is no steering feel and with any suspension mods the thing is the most uncomfortable beast in the world... but my mate loves it...???

I'll never know why he does, which is why I agree with RED_EL_XR8... this thread will go to hell imminently...

[xe351]

Ok, since we are not gunna be nasty to the gm boys, i think it is a few reasons why commo's are more popular:

- performance definately, lets not kid ourselves on this one

- the au styling did a lot of harm in the general publics perception of Ford. i personally think if the au XR8 had like 250-260kw it would have lifted the au falcon image substantially, controversial styling is better if it goes like stink!

- ford dropping the V8 in '82
- ford not supporting factory race teams for ages

- Ford not doing clever marketing

- people are like sheep, they go they way everyone is going

- Ford needed a 'Hero' car, and until the AU T3 250kw they didnt have one

- People take time to change

- The BA helped Fords image heaps, with good styling, but they need to be really careful because the BF is a good car, but i wonder how many people are gunna buy a new one that looks just like the old one, time will tell

[xe351]

Originally Posted by fauxpas

My mate reckons the VN commodore is the best ever aussie car... and he's serious!!!

I reckon the VN/VP was the worst aussie car ever made and may even be globally the worst car ever made. Build quality is non existent, the roof falls on your head, the window seals drop into the door wells, the dash turns 5 colours of grey, interior plastics randomly crack for no reason, the head gasket explodes if you don't use holden's own coolant, there is no steering feel and with any suspension mods the thing is the most uncomfortable beast in the world... but my mate loves it...???

I'll never know why he does, which is why I agree with RED_EL_XR8... this thread will go to hell imminently...

Mate i reckon the vn looked worse than the au too

[Paxton]

My parents had a VL Commodore wagon. My father was working as an Engineer at the time, and needed something that would carry his equipment, and be economical, aswell as powerful. It was 5 speed manual, and because he had just come from a XF, he didn't want another one. He had the car for three years, and then raced into an EA, which was also a manual wagon. It was the biggest lemon we ever had, however it was larger than the Commodore, and was also more powerful.

We went to an EB, then it was my turn. I stuck with Ford, mainly because I liked the blue oval, and because I was in love with the EF XR Face. Holden don't have a 'sporty face', which the Falcon does.

During the AU days, Ford discounted the AU like crazy, and therefore put many fleet owners offside. I know my fleet manager shook her head when I told her I wanted to novate an AU XR6 VCT. SHe tried to get me into an Ex employee's Calais. I wouldn't have a bar of it. The Stigma against the Falcon still stands, however if the VE turns out to be Holden's AU, then Fleet owners will flock to Ford. I am afraid that the Camry might become the new fleet car of choice. Thank god for Car Allowance.

[RavenLS1]

Originally Posted by xe351

Ok, since we are not gunna be nasty to the gm boys, i think it is a few reasons why commo's are more popular:

- performance definately, lets not kid ourselves on this one

- the au styling did a lot of harm in the general publics perception of Ford. i personally think if the au XR8 had like 250-260kw it would have lifted the au falcon image substantially, controversial styling is better if it goes like stink!

- ford dropping the V8 in '82
- ford not supporting factory race teams for ages

- Ford not doing clever marketing

- people are like sheep, they go they way everyone is going

- Ford needed a 'Hero' car, and until the AU T3 250kw they didnt have one

- People take time to change

- The BA helped Fords image heaps, with good styling, but they need to be really careful because the BF is a good car, but i wonder how many people are gunna buy a new one that looks just like the old one, time will tell

very well said mate.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by Polyal

..............................Why do people buy Holdens?....................................

Why do people prefer to drink Coke over Pepsi?

Why do people prefer Toohey New to VB?

In chess do you prefer be the "whites" or the "blacks"

To most Aussies a car gets them from A to B with family and the camping equipment. A Holdens got doors to get it to the car, an engine to make the car go (and fast too) it has wheels and seats.

[XRated]

Marketing and in turn; following what other people say. You can sell anything as long as you market it well.

Your average Joe doesn't usually care (or notice rather) things such as smoothness, NVH etc. Like a friend's VR Commie I went in the other night - it's rough as hession undies from 0-60km/h compared to both my ED and brother's EF with as many kms.

[jspec_sti]

I think xe351 hit the nail on the head. The dropping of the V8 in 1982 handed Holden a generation of buyers. I went to high school during the 80's and an S pack EFI X-Series Falcon never quite cut it against the Brock Group A HDT Commodores, or the later HSV variants after the Polariser debacle.

The influence of a "hero" model to younger buyers is bigger than you might think - how many VN V6 Executives do you see plastered in HSV stickers...

[MYVYSS]

I brought mine because.

I prefered the interior of my SS to the interior of the XR8. Also the performance of the SS was a factor. I found the "package" offered to me for fleet purchase from Holden was far greater than the stuff I could get out of Ford..they didnt want to finalise the price until I signed...which as I stated I cant sign when I dont know the price..( I worked for a Company with GOLD Fleet discounts)

Holden offered me an SS on 3 different occasions to "test drive" for a couple of hours at a time. I couldnt even get a test drive of the BA XR8 (or 6) for that matter.

You talk about change and Ford having "some" success on the racetrack in the last 3 years, which is true and wonderful, however the previous what 9 years were dominated by the Big Red Cars or at least cars with the Lion Symbol...(not bashing, pointing out facts). I think in the next 5 years you may see a shift from the younger generation buying the Holden's to moving towards the Blue Oval, however a lot of the younger kids I am talking too are more interested in the RICERS and turbo's with blow offs and what not...which is sad...also with the price of petrol probably never going below 1 dollar a litre ever again, I forsee most of the younger generation running around in 4 bangers with big turbos and more skirts than you will find in chapel street on a Friday night...

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

Red , I'm thirsty ! I feel like a cuppa !

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Malakai

I have mates that buy Holdens and they really don't buy them on the merrit of the car they buy them because they are a Holden. So I think that the NVH, dynamics, comfort and so forth are overlooked by the majority of buyers.

I have a Holden loving mate that says the BA is a great looking car but he could never own a Ford. I believe that there a lot of people out there that are like this, from both camps.

Another mate of mine had a VN and he would literally spend his paycheck on the car to keep it running (mind you it was not even close to road worthy). Yet he bought a second hand VT as his next car. In his defence it was that or and AU. But I believe that if he had a choice between a VY and an BA he would go the VY.

[KEV EB XR8]

The kettles about to boil...................

Cup of tea anyone?

[gozza]

why do some people like coke and others pepsi

[mrs xa coupe]

i think abother reason has to be marketing. In teh same year that we had basically just the original BA "cant get enough of this" ad and the stupid blue jacket ads for sales, holden had about 7 ads, using their V8 drivers as well as more general ads and sale ads. Ford has finally got the prodect right with the BA. now they need to learn how to market it. Look at the focus. They introduced it as a car for young hip people, with a marketing campaign involving and JJJ radio station. I dont know about you, but I havent really seen many people below 50 driving them.

Also the dealers need to pull their socks up. About a year ago I wanted to go car hunting with a friend. We pull up to nepean hwy in elsternwick on a saturday morning and the President Ford dealer is CLOSED!!! Funnily enough Summit Holden next door it open and full of people. I really wanted her to look at a territory or BA falcon so we came back on Thursday and Friday after work at about 5pm and again ford is closed while summit holden is open and full of people. In the end she bought a holdne, bascially because she never got to see a BA.

In the end I think a lot of people have pre-conceived ideas of which brand they prefer, but its hard to convert people when holden wins in the marketing stakes.

[OzJavelin]

Bought my first car - 61 Studebaker Lark - 'cos it was a American, V8 (wanted some "flash") and $200. Bought my second car - 65 Dodge Phoenix - 'cos it was American, V8 (ditto) and $2000 .. far cheaper than equivalent Impala's or Galaxies. Bought a succession of Mopars (Phoenixes, Chargers, Val coupes, AP6s, etc) for similar reasons .. cheap to buy, performed, towed, carried, etc ... everything I wanted from them.

Moving into modern history .. bought AU V8 ute cos it was best value-for-money. Best carrying / towing capacity .. and sexy V8 burble. Holden ute was useless to me with it's 1600kg towing "capacity".

Wanted a modern V8 sedan, base model ('cos wife would wreck it anyway). Test drove BA XT V8 and SV8. BA was nice, but SV8 was better bang-for-buck. Significantly greater fun factor for dollars involved.

I look to old Yank stuff for "flash" (nothing turns heads like a '49 Ford convertible), and modern Ford / Holden stuff for function. My decisions aren't red or blue. It's what works best, hence I have a combination of both.

Maybe instead of this continual abuse between Ford and Holden we should be focusing on ricers ..... I don't hate any Holden or Ford, but my "list" includes Toyota, Mitsu, Honda, Suzuki, Kia, Daewoo, etc, etc ,etc .....

Rod (still living an obsoleted, V8-powered world)

[Charliewool]

I DO believe it's a cultural thing!... I have been Ford all my life, even at school, where most of the other guys were Monaro or Torana mad.
My 16yr old Son, who was even brought home from his birth in a Ford & has been carted around in Fords ever since has is entire room plastered in HSV & Holden stuff! He wears the HSV shirt, jacket etc constantly (Even when I used to take him to footy training in the Pursuit!) ALL his mates are the same!.. HSV & Holden MAD! You just DON'T "conform" at school if your a Ford "outcast"..
Maybe it IS just a time we go through?... I reckon in the 30's thru the early 60's it would have certainly been Ford dominated with all the rodders specifically choosing Fords? Maybe it'll all turn full circle again one day?

[Ryan]

I bought a Holden (VL) because thats what I wanted.

I dont care about their bad reputation because I wanted one regardless if it was a N/A,V8 or Turbo.

[niko]

personal preference.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by VY18s

I bought a Holden (VL) because thats what I wanted.

I dont care about their bad reputation because I wanted one regardless if it was a N/A,V8 or Turbo.

But what I want to know is why?

There must have been something that clicked with you. The price? (holdens in general IMO are cheaper...just), performance? looks?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by niko

personal preference.

again, there is a reason why you have preference

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Polyal

But what I want to know is why?

There must have been something that clicked with you. The price? (holdens in general IMO are cheaper...just), performance? looks?

I think it was because of Summernats 2002 after seeing alot of hot VLs so I decided thats what I wanted so I guess you can say I was attracted to VLs because of their looks.

Also $3000 for a schmik 5 Speed was a really good buy back in 2003.

[Mr Mooch]

Hi Guys
I think that public perception "Australia's Own" goes a long way to selling Holdens. Many punters forget that the Parent company is the US Giant GM.
Ford needs to utilise some of the marketing ques from days gone by.
They also need to return to the days of Race on Sunday sell on Monday. I have not seen Ford hitting the Tele with loads of stuff about 1,2,3 in the Championship. How dumb is that. I love my BA XR8 and will get another when the time comes around, but I do agree that we need to do some HERO advertising for the Fords.

Mr Mooch

[henry 351]

I bought a Holden because the Ford equivalent was bollocks for around the same price. I needed a family wagon, and to carry 2 large dogs.

I bought a VX Berlina wagon with a Gen 3 and cop suspension. Its load area was vastly superior to the AU, it handled better than the AU, and with 225kw vs. 165kw it went better than the AU.

I would have preferred the Ford product , but for my comparision it was inferior. To be honest the VX gave me no grief the whole time I owned it.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Mr Mooch

Hi Guys
I think that public perception "Australia's Own" goes a long way to selling Holdens. Many punters forget that the Parent company is the US Giant GM.
Ford needs to utilise some of the marketing ques from days gone by.
They also need to return to the days of Race on Sunday sell on Monday. I have not seen Ford hitting the Tele with loads of stuff about 1,2,3 in the Championship. How dumb is that. I love my BA XR8 and will get another when the time comes around, but I do agree that we need to do some HERO advertising for the Fords.

Mr Mooch

On Ford.com.au theres 2 advertisements about the 3 straight victories also ****ing on Holden in the process.

I dont really care that much though.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Polyal

EDIT: I delibrately kept styling out of it because thats personal not objective. And AU guys please dont get snakey at any referance to the AU being a sales nightmare.

No you didn't

Originally Posted by polyal

Interior Style/Comfort/usage - Ford

And you shouldn't. Looks/styling/popularity, whatever you want to call it, will swing most "A car is to get you from A to B" car buyers. It's only loyal customers or brand enthusiasts that will buy a particular brand. Also, pricing, changeover $$$, trade in given etc will dictate the choice for many - especially those on fixed incomes, families etc.

As for why young people buy a particualr brand - just look at what the parents drive. About 60 to 70% will buy the same brand, and the rest will buy any brand other than what there parents have (For instance there's no way I will buy a Toyota Hiace van).

[Hunter]

I haven't read this thread too thoroughly yet so forgive me if I repeat what's already been said but I believe they buy them for the following reasons:

1) Some wierd misconception that Holdens are some how the most Australian car you can buy. Ironically Falcons are probably more Australian than the Commodore has been for a while. Almost every aspect of the Falcon is designed, tested and built in Australia. The Commodore on the other hand is based upon a European design and uses an old American powerplant (and the new alloytec was a global effort, not just Australian). Hardly what'd I'd consider to be an Australian car. My ex. GF was so ignorant in this regard. Total Holden fan. Told me my Falcon was 'alright for a Ford but I wouldn't drive it'. Got rid of her pretty quick :P.

2) Commodores attract a wider market. Compare the number of bogan clowns doing burnouts in their fuly sik VL/VN/VP/VR/VS (VT is yet to reach the critical mass of bogans to be considered a truly bogan car) to the number of bogan clowns in Falcons doing burnouts. Hardly any. Commodore fans would say this is because Falcons can't do burnouts but we all know that the only reason Commodores do burnouts is because their owners don't bother putting good rubber on them cause they spent all their money on turning their car into a disco on wheels or police defect notices :

3) Falcons have traditionally attracted older owners. No problem with me on this one actually, because everyone knows old people wouldn't dare take their car above 3000 rpm or travel at the speed limit. And they're anal so its going to be serviced every 5000 km and live in a garage all its life :P. But being serious, I think the image is definately what keeps the masses away from Falcons, or at least it did. The XR6T went a long long way towards changing that image.

4) Styling. The styling of Falcons is generally not agressive or visually offensive like most cars on the road. I like the styling of the the EF/EL (don't like the EF grille tho), and I don't mind the BA but the AU was a bit meh. From a technical standpoint it was quite good but styling wise, most people though it was a bit too radical. And it looked like an ovaltine.

That is all. I probably could think of more .