Ive got a bone to pick.... Chips / Flash tuners

[XR6 Hulk]

Ive got a bone to pick with chips for cars. Please review the example below..

They always have a dyno graph which has standard car.... example 100rwkw

then there is another graph, chip and sports exhaust .... 110rwkw

then there is a third graph, chip, extractors and sports exhaust ...115rwkw

Then the chip manufacturer/tuner says see you can get 15rwkw with a chip.

What I would like to know is, how much did the car make with sports exhaust and no chip and extractors with no chip. There is probably a all benefit from the chip but they grab the benefits of the extractors and say its theirs.

what do we think??

[Peuty]

I think you read too far into things.

[Casablanca]

i agree ^^^

why don't you ask the shop... ?

[|||]

i think you should contact ACA or Today Tonight then we can see anna corren or someone knocking on their doors to explain these so called "graphs"

then well see some guy going "hey lets all relax i have them all saved in excel whats your email address i will send them to you soon ok bye"

[james22]

Hmm, well this is a waste of bandwidth........ I want my 30 seconds back!!!

[XR6 Hulk]

Originally Posted by Casablanca

i agree ^^^

why don't you ask the shop... ?

I did, they try and take all the credit for the gains. I said wheres the graph with standard car with exhaust and extractors graph without chip. Surprise surprise, they dont have one.

They can only claim the benefit from the chip against the car which is tested with extractors and exhaust, the incremental benefit not the whole benefit. Its very cheeky on their behalf.

The people that reply here that say my point is not valid are just fools and get ripped off easy by clever marketing. They are no better than the mob claiming the ab apparatus will make your stomach flat by itself, they fail to mention you need to watch your diet which contributes equally. They try and take all the benefit for the flat stomach. I might ring today tonight..

Go to the exhaust shop, they will try to take the credit from the same gains. They say you will get an extra 10rwkw, the chip, they say you will get extra 15rwkw, but when both are on the car you only make 15rwkw. so is the benefit from the exhaust or the chip? They both take all the credit. Fools out there let this little lie pass.

[james22]

Its not peak power that really makes a difference. Its torque and power over your rev range that the "Chip" as such improves. The difference in peak power really is irrelevant when it comes to tuning, as long as the drivability and torque over the rev range is improved. Which is what really shows in these graphs. A friend of mine had his 220 tuned, and ONLY got a 6rwkw increase. He was a bit dissapointed.... Until he took it for a drive... That said it all

[XR6 Hulk]

with all due respect are you a tuner? If it only made 6rwkw at the top end, its not gonna make 20rwkw above the standard power curve in the mid range and drop out towards the top end, if anything the difference lower in the rev range will be less than 6rwkw. Inless its a poorly tuned car from the factory where you will see top end gains as well as low/mid range. (like LS1).

LEts be fair, they are pulling our leg a little with the way they represent the graphs, trying to claim all the benefit.

[svo347]

Originally Posted by james22

Its not peak power that really makes a difference. Its torque and power over your rev range that the "Chip" as such improves. The difference in peak power really is irrelevant when it comes to tuning, as long as the drivability and torque over the rev range is improved. Which is what really shows in these graphs. A friend of mine had his 220 tuned, and ONLY got a 6rwkw increase. He was a bit dissapointed.... Until he took it for a drive... That said it all

Double thumbs up to you mate.... A well explained reply

[XR6 Hulk]

See how sneaky they are... look at the graph, where is the graph, car, exhaust, extractors and no chip...

UPDATE:::: They have come clean, they said yes they are cumulative gains BUT they said they a full exhaust system and extractors will give the V8 2-3rwkw and the chip contributes the 8-10rwkw

Im sceptical, love to see it on a dyno...

[Dave_au]

Does it really matter though?

The majority of people would normally upgrade the exhaust system before reflashing/chipping the car, it's a pretty much hand in hand mod.

Most people will chip their cars exactly to gain the most benefit from minor mods on the vehicle.

[james22]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Does it really matter though?

The majority of people would normally upgrade the exhaust system before reflashing/chipping the car, it's a pretty much hand in hand mod.

Most people will chip their cars exactly to gain the most benefit from minor mods on the vehicle.

Another excellent reply. Whats the point of tuning your car, when you have nothing or very little to improve on.... :

[DivHunter]

Originally Posted by james22

Another excellent reply. Whats the point of tuning your car, when you have nothing or very little to improve on.... :

Because stock tunes are often no where near an engines potential power and or economy.

Having said that aren't most of these 'chips' fairly basic in what they actually do? Alter AFM voltages and the like?

[XR6 Hulk]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Does it really matter though?

The majority of people would normally upgrade the exhaust system before reflashing/chipping the car, it's a pretty much hand in hand mod.

Most people will chip their cars exactly to gain the most benefit from minor mods on the vehicle.

Actually im not so sure its an excellent reply.. Im not saying the mod is worthless, im just sceptical about the gains they claim. Im just saying tell me the truth. Im sure its not a 14rwkw gainover the car with exhaust and extractors with the chip but they compare these mods to a bog stock car and then claim the whole benefit. They cant say we didnt have a car to test? How did they test their own chip? They should be more clear, then we can all make an informed decision. dollars per kw etc..

[xquizd]

XR6 HULK you seem to have alllllllllloooooooooooooootttttttttt of spare time on your hands & you,ve always got a bone to pik with something

[vanman_75]

its quite obvious then if you already know about the 'claim' you think too much i would say anyone who has chipped knows these things all add up.

[Hoops]

Hulk you are a very strange man :

[groops]

I never got mine tuned originally...but after I did Exhaust (inc. Paccies 4480 ceramic coated, Metal Catz Ceramic Coated 3" Cat and Lukey 2.5" mandrel bent cat back) it was putting out 118rwkw. After Haltech Interceptor it was outputting 141rwkw...22rwkw gain in 'chip' alone. I was happy....figures aside...if it feels better, then is probably is. I know that my car now tears up streets if I want it to, but also more fuel efficient. Main differences I noticed....

Added Cat Back = more noise
Added Extractors = better airflow and less restriction in high revvs
Added Cat = Better airflow and more noise....sounded alot more raw
Added Haltech Interceptor = More Pull and +22rkwk

IMHO
Mike

[XR6 Hulk]

Originally Posted by xquizd

XR6 HULK you seem to have alllllllllloooooooooooooootttttttttt of spare time on your hands & you,ve always got a bone to pik with something

Consider me the man who keeps our eyes open. Ensure we get maximum kw for our dollar. Ill remove the clouds and smoke from their claims and make them deliver what they promise...

[RG]

Originally Posted by XR6 Hulk

with all due respect are you a tuner? If it only made 6rwkw at the top end, its not gonna make 20rwkw above the standard power curve in the mid range and drop out towards the top end, if anything the difference lower in the rev range will be less than 6rwkw. Inless its a poorly tuned car from the factory where you will see top end gains as well as low/mid range. (like LS1).

LEts be fair, they are pulling our leg a little with the way they represent the graphs, trying to claim all the benefit.

With all due respect you obviously know bugger all about tuning. Just because an engine makes only marginal gains to peak power with a tune means nothing to how much mid range torque the engine makes after the tune. Take mine for example, with a change in tune from a Unichip to the flasher and the G&D airbox my peak went up 20rwkw. Torque was well up from what it was though and power was well up (more than 20rwkw in sowm places) throughout the rev range.

Maybe you should do a little more "investigation".

[XR6 Hulk]

Originally Posted by RedXR347

With all due respect you obviously know bugger all about tuning. Just because an engine makes only marginal gains to peak power with a tune means nothing to how much mid range torque the engine makes after the tune. Take mine for example, with a change in tune from a Unichip to the flasher and the G&D airbox my peak went up 20rwkw. Torque was well up from what it was though and power was well up (more than 20rwkw in sowm places) throughout the rev range.

Maybe you should do a little more "investigation".

Im not a tuner but have seen a few graphs in my time, ive never seen a tune where there is a huge spike down low and then it just looks flat to just pip the standard graph by 6rwkw. : thats with exactly the same hardward just a tune. Thats what your suggesting a tune can do...

[Peuty]

Originally Posted by XR6 Hulk

Im not a tuner but have seen a few graphs in my time, ive never seen a tune where there is a huge spike down low and then it just looks flat to just pip the standard graph by 6rwkw. : thats with exactly the same hardward just a tune. Thats what your suggesting a tune can do...

So of all these graphs you have seen over the years, have you ever been for a before and after drive of the respective cars?

[XR6 Hulk]

Originally Posted by Peuty

So of all these graphs you have seen over the years, have you ever been for a before and after drive of the respective cars?

absolutely, I notice big difference in LS1, XR6 Turbo (more boost). they are just detuned big time at factory. this is all stock hardward. In a LS1 I saw 48rwkw gain, of course you will feel that. XR6 turbo, all the gain is in the forced induction setup, squeeze more boost in.

but little or no benefit on holden injected 5.0 and ford Windsor V8. They just drove the same, maybe worse.

[Laminge]

Originally Posted by XR6 Hulk

Im not a tuner but have seen a few graphs in my time, ive never seen a tune where there is a huge spike down low and then it just looks flat to just pip the standard graph by 6rwkw. : thats with exactly the same hardward just a tune. Thats what your suggesting a tune can do...

What a load of horse dollop, I have read your posts and seriously do you take us for fools? You wouldn't know the first thing about the usefulness of a graph let alone what a dyno is for. Posting within your own reference to life is a good start, not reference to dyno result on a web site or repeated recommendations from various forums.

Have a good look at the number of threads you have had shut down because if idiotic ramblings, this my friend will be the last time a thread is shut, next it will be your account.

I am supposed to be impartial as an administrator but in this case the rubbish that flows through your keyboard demands a written response.