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01-02-2010, 10:52 PM | #1 | |||
Getting it done.....
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 2,219
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Ok chaps came accross this editorial on the caradvice website. The recent thread on the terrible crash involving 5 deaths in Vic (driven by an unlicensed driver in XR6) brought up a thorough debate on various road safety issues.
I thought this story, though rather long, was worth a read by forum members given the way it addresses hooning, the gov (esp Vic.) response and other safety issues. The journo has made some good points esp related to licensing.... Quote:
Some points i would make after reading this to start things off: 1. The issue of 'value of a license'. In this country it is seen as a 'given right' to have a license, regardless of achieveing a basic standard of driving skill or behaviour. Moreover, it is very hard to remove one's license in a meaninful manner if that motorist persists in poor driving behaviour. Other countries (germany comes to mind) it is far more difficult (albeit expensive) to obtain a license and so people value it, and drive accordingly. 2. having specific hoon laws is a bad step in general. For starters, you must 'define' hooning. If i get a short burst of wheelspin taking off up hill in my EF on a wet day at the traffic lights (purely by accident) am i a hoon? Why do murderers get the presumption of innoncence but i don't? The local cop is the judge and jury on the spot.... We already have laws for dangerous driving and other offences why have specific laws for a given reason for the behaviour (being a lout basically)?? 3. With all the hoopla against car manufacturers (e.g. toyota a present) for delaying recalls, obfuscating the truth to make money while potentially unsafe cars are buit and driven on the roads, it is telling people don't apply the same scrutinty to politicians. These pollies know deaths are occuring on our roads yet instead of attacking the real causes (or bothering to aquaint themselves with what those reaons are) they go for simplistic, unhelpful on the fly policy that does nothing other than increasing their chances at the next election....and killing more motorist... Then again, maybe its the voters...
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02-02-2010, 12:30 AM | #2 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: perth wa
Posts: 199
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well i need to take my car in for a service do i have to go in there with a contract stating that if my car gets done in a "hoon law" that they will pay for all cost including hire car cost's?
i belive they should but im not a rich doc with a lambo im a middle class labourer with a bfxr6 so were do all us middle class people stand? |
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02-02-2010, 12:32 AM | #3 | ||
FORMER T3 OWNER
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,241
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I never thought Id see the day where a journalist spoke common bloody sense.
the crush this/ban that approach hasn't worked, wont work and yet the seem to keep pushing the same barrow? he is right about it being a publicity stunt, especially when only 2% of the road toll is even attributed to 'dangerous driving' and like he has mentioned, we already had/have appropriate measures/offences with out having the HOON laws in place, except they don't get used in the appropriate manner, or like with most things, police do their job then get phucked by the courts. yes sometimes Justis is wrong, that's why we don't have the death penalty anymore because they got it wrong ALOT. as far as im concerned you shouldn't by right and legally loose your car *if they want that rule imposed* until after your hearing? i mean EVERY other offence your punishment isn't given until a verdict is handed down? why at the side of the road are you issued your punishment of car impoundment then given another reaming of loss of licence once your case has been heard? there has been 2 such cases in qld where a car has been impounded and police red faced after having the case thrown out, however unfairly the car has been impounded for 48 hours in the mean time with no right/option to recoup or file for losses due to someones stuff up? the world has gone mad.
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02-02-2010, 12:55 AM | #4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: WA
Posts: 1,158
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Well done JC.
This should be a full page notice in every major Oz newspaper. |
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02-02-2010, 07:43 AM | #5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: TAS
Posts: 2,551
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Part of the problem with unlicenced drivers is that it is so easy to lose your licence over a few minor speeding infringements. Try two fines on a double demerit long weekend and you are potentially gone. Anyone could do this. I did in a 50 zone, thinking it was 60 - caught doing 59km/h. I drove this stretch of road twice on a long weekend morning with my 4x4 towing a trailer. Safe? Absolutely, as there was noone around. Guilty....well according to the law yes. So would losing my licence (as would happen in NSW) result in me stopping driving to uni, taking the kids to school, or going to work? Hell no. I would just become another "scumbag" unlicenced driver. Is this right? With no real public transport available, the nearest taxi 30mins call away, all for an easy mistake. That is just my take. The speed laws and hooning stuff is popularist rubbish.
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02-02-2010, 08:35 AM | #6 | ||||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,763
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Quote:
this is why you take it to court or something to explain the situation. in my opinion (<- please note) the govt should get a LOT tougher on unregistered cars and unlicenced drivers. try deter people from doing these things. the people writing themselves off aren't adhering to any current laws/rules, so why would bringing out new ones make a difference. here's an issue that i see as being part of the major cause Quote:
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02-02-2010, 09:09 AM | #7 | ||
formerly lorosfalcon
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Shepparton
Posts: 109
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That is one of the best articles i have read about hoon driving. JC is 100% correct in everything he says. The police need to move off the speed/hoon targets and onto the idiots that think its ok to drive around with no licence in an unregistered vehicle. These are the people whos cars should be confiscated and crushed not us car enthusiests who might accidently let the clutch out a bit quick and chirp tyres or accelerate hard. Thats my 2c
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02-02-2010, 10:22 AM | #8 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: VIC
Posts: 244
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Unfortunately, the "Speed Kills" campaign is so deeply entrenched (at least in Victoria) that speeding is all the government concentrates on. Only recently has the word "hoon" been absolutely overkilled by the government and sensationalised by the media that it is the new word for all facets of speeding AND wreckless driving (not just the latter, as it should to be).
All it takes is the smallest of chirps and the police will follow you, waiting for you to go that 1 km/h above the accepted threshold then come down like a tonne of bricks and be labelled as a hoon. On top of that, because you have a nice sounding exhaust and actually properly maintain and enjoy the use of your car, they might even try to give you a canary for that modification that has no bearing on the roadworthiness of your car. Don't forget that they will also invest resources into releasing a statement stating what just happened. What I would like to see, just like many people here, is for these wreckless drivers to take their urges off public roads and onto legal offstreet sites however this brings up another issue as there is currently a lack of those said sites, at least in Victoria there is. If people had access to these sites, I am willing to almost guarantee that incidents of hooning will reduce dramatically and all the hype with the introduction of deterent legislation will subside along with it. If any level of government is serious about tackling road toll reduction and bringing down high speed infringement incidents then they will certainly assist the public by giving them access to more suitable local sites to do as they please without having to worry about affecting innocent road users and potentially losing their licence. |
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02-02-2010, 10:22 AM | #9 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,505
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I didn't think it was possible to miss so badly not even the government! come on, 3 strike policy when it is oh so easy to (in error) commit an offense that can be deemed "hooning" I posted quite a while ago that I took off from a carpark across from a police station, the angles of the guttering and the like unsettle the rear of my car, and not just mine I see several others at that same spot chirp/slip wheels and in general hoon, one was a little old lady in an old magna, she took off (albeit slowly) and hit the guttering wrong angle and chirped one of the tyres! (just like I did) did the police go and knock on her door and get all ****y/tough with her? I am guessing not, but get me and I spose I fit the profile of a hoon early 30's nice car with lots of power (XR6T) so they jump on me, if the police were to camp that entrance to the road out of that carpark they would get every 2nd to 3rd car for wheelspin, and now they are introducing a 3 strike policy? all I can hope for is that the boys in blue use these rules and powers appropriately. I personally apart from that one instance have never had any problems in regard to "hooning".
What constitutes excessive wheelspin anyway? is it smoke generated?
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02-02-2010, 10:36 AM | #10 | ||||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 665
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Quote:
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Good read. |
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02-02-2010, 10:37 AM | #11 | |||
formerly lorosfalcon
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Shepparton
Posts: 109
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Quote:
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03 BA XT I6 F6 CAI 3" intake pipe XForce 2 1/2 exhaust with hidden tip Battery in boot Textralia clutuch T56 conversion King Springs SL front SSL rear Pedders shocks PBR upgrade front brakes 20" koya rush II wheels (street/show) 17" Enkei WRC Tarmac evo wheels (fun) 5% tint Polk Audio 5x7 speakers Option Audio 500WRMS amp Clarion dual voice coil 15" sub in box TO COME: Typhoon engine conversion |
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02-02-2010, 10:49 AM | #12 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: VIC
Posts: 244
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Quote:
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02-02-2010, 10:52 AM | #13 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,566
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If there was a cheap, local skidpan or track I can guarantee I wouldn't even think about ripping a skid on the streets
there would be plenty of people to watch, first aid, guidelines, money to be made from spectators and people wanting to have a drive I don't see how some rich bugger hasn't made more money off car obsessed youth, it's a good investment
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02-02-2010, 10:59 AM | #14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,505
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Quote:
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02-02-2010, 11:08 AM | #15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 601
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This article is probably the best I have ever read on the subject. The Hoon label should be dropped and replaced with "high percentage Re-offender". The sort of person who doesn't learn. Continuing with stupid and dangerous behaviour. Then I am all for the suggested 3 strike policy. After it has been to court only. The drivers vehicle should be impounded, Not the car that was driven. (e.g. The doctors Lambo. The mechanics personal car should have been impounded.
The only flaw I see, if they do sell the car, and payout the finance, the "hoon" gets a nice credit rating, and can therefore go and buy a dearer car with finance and do it all again. If they added "Vehicle Confiscated" to the persons credit rating, and made the stigma as bad as being bankrupt, that may stop them in future. Again, any action should only be carried out by a court of Law. Police would have to present evidence, the person charged would have to defend themselves and explain their actions. And a Judge would then decide. This way the persons entire driving record could either help them, or hinder them. I heard awhile back (In Queensland anyway), that excess wheelspin was anything lasting longer than 10 seconds. I think thats fair. Especially in the wet, with so many cheap, poor quality tyres available on the market. Apparently, our speed camersa have a 10% buffer on them also. So 11%over the speed limit and your booked. 9% and your safe. This too I think is fair thing taking speedo discrepencies into account. Cheers Ned |
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02-02-2010, 11:31 AM | #16 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,694
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02-02-2010, 11:35 AM | #17 | ||
65 Galaxie Hardtop
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane QLD
Posts: 3,751
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Excellent article. Nuff said.
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02-02-2010, 11:50 AM | #18 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Barossa Valley, South Australia
Posts: 3,381
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Great article.
We've had a shocking January here in SA. 20 lives lost on the road in one month, compared to 6 last year! http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/s...9-2682,00.html In that article, it states that 19 of the 20 deaths were on rural roads. How many of those 19 deaths were attributed to hoonish behaviour? My guess would be none. Of the 1 that wasn't on rural roads, was it caused by hoonish behaviour? Who knows, but my guess again would be no. Hoons don't cause normally cause road deaths, the majority would be attributed to speeding, inattentiveness, drowsiness and lack of education.
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02-02-2010, 11:53 AM | #19 | |||
Petro-sexual
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,527
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Quote:
If the moron crashed the car into a pole without insurance (high likelihood if they dont have a licence or registration) then they are left to pay the loan for that car even though it is shaped like a banana. If its impounded and sold, same should apply. Stiff ********. Time to harden up and actually dish out some decent punishment. |
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02-02-2010, 12:02 PM | #20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 601
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Quote:
The Dictatorship is more interested in protecting the RICH finance companies than it is concerned about the general public. Secondly the scumbag element won't repay a loan for a car they don't have. That means everyone else with a loan of any kind will be hit with higher interest and fees to compensate. I think somewhere it was stated (in another thread) that only secured loans would be paid out. Personal loans would not. I still think it should be noted on the credit rating so it affects these idiots long after the car is sold. No money= no car. Call it preventative medicine. |
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02-02-2010, 12:13 PM | #21 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 665
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Quote:
I would rather see an advertising campaign that identified unlicensed drivers instead of the usual brain dead malarky they usually roll out. Something along the lines of "Unlicensed Drivers" they don’t care about the law, so why would they care about you. This is an anti social behaviour and should be outed as such, no different to the very successful "Drink Drive Bloody Idiot" campaign. |
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02-02-2010, 12:21 PM | #22 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: VIC
Posts: 244
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02-02-2010, 06:51 PM | #23 | ||
BF XR6, oh yeah!!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Melton, Vic
Posts: 1,015
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The problem with any of these laws is much bigger than any politician is game enough to admit too. It doesn't matter how big the penalties, or how many different restrictions are placed on cars and drivers, people like the idiot that wiped out himself and his poor 4 mates the other weekend will always find a way to be an idiot. Speed governors can be taken off If you know how, Speed limits will always be broken, certain people will always drive unlicensed, and certain people (some of which are on this very forum) will always drive a car they are not permitted to drive. At the end of the day, there are some people that believe that the law doesn't apply to them, and there are some people who think they are invincible.
No I don't have the answer, but I do believe that this problem can not be fixed with a quick band-aid solution, it will take an attitude change similar to what we have seen with cigarettes. 30 years ago it was acceptable to smoke just about anywhere, now it is illegal to smoke in most public places, and most people look down on smoking. I believe a similar approach needs to be taken with "hooning" or otherwise we will always have these degenerates that cause carnage on our roads.
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Current ride: 2005 BF XR6 Sedan, Lightning Strike, ZF Auto Previous ride: 2001 AUII Futura Sedan, Narooma Blue Last edited by XR6_190; 02-02-2010 at 06:58 PM. |
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02-02-2010, 07:07 PM | #24 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 65
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Many more hoons’ cars would presumably be subject to finance agreements – and there’s no way the banks would cop a public policy that legalised the large-scale destruction of loan security assets.
Hardly a good excuse for not crushing cars. Banks give unsecured loans(rely on repossesing the car) to young people?, times have changed. Surely if the practice were true, the lending institutions would adjust their policies accordingly to cater for any laws: either not lend so much money without a more substantial security, ie find a guarantor for the loan or get out of giving young people 30000 grand for a car in the 1st place. I agree, unlicensed drivers and the lack of real penalties is a problem that needs addressing, However, the proclaimed article posted above has no clear statistical link on how much the unlicenced problem overlaps with the owner/driver hoons out there that are still legally able to drive on the roads and endanger the public. Those newly licenced young guns need the threat of some severely abrupt consequences to stop being tools in the first place. For many the threat of losing their licence down the track is something that doesnt get past their child like mindsthat seek instant gratification, whereas the crushing of their vehicle before their eyes, would always be a realistic detterent |
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02-02-2010, 07:18 PM | #25 | ||
Ford motor company
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Victoria
Posts: 791
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not to do with 'hooning', 'speeding' but i reckon the goverment and police should 'really' crack down on drink driving. i have NEVER drink drove for the reason that there is a 100% chance i would crash. i don't get what people think when they believe they can drive. IMO there needs to be massive penaltys for this. most accidents i hear of on the news involve drink driving. like the one the other week with the 5 teens killed. yes he was speeding excessively but alcohol probably made the driver think he could push the boundrys more
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02-02-2010, 07:47 PM | #26 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 770
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at the end of the day the vast majority of people follow the road rules and drive safely but you can't and never will be able to make a law against stupidity. stupid people with no regard for anyone else on the road will allways be stupid wherever they are.
Its human nature, target these people to keep them away from causing harm to others and stop taking the freedom away from everyone else, Starting to think a dictatatorship Isn't too far away |
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02-02-2010, 08:04 PM | #27 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,292
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One day in the distant future, you will get in your car, put your license in the license reader, scan your finger on the I.D reader, blow into the breathalyzer and then insert the key and and if all is current and correct, you can start the car.
Till this day happens, no one has to have any responsibility for what they do - its always someone elses fault. |
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02-02-2010, 09:08 PM | #28 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 266
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Quote:
I'm sick to death of car enthusiasts and 'hoons' being put in the same basket. : But it seems the media and government (even the police) are quick to tar them with same brush. I watched a report on TV some time ago (might have been today tonight, can't remember) and the police officer being interviewed reffered to 'hoons' as car enthusiasts. :togo: Driving a modified or performance car does NOT automatically make you a hoon. It makes my blood boil.
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02-02-2010, 09:23 PM | #29 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,398
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I see on the news tonight that New South Wales has got tough on people causing high police chases.
Froom now on, people doing this will face up to three years jail and up to five years for a repeat offence. No if only we could get instant license suspension for bullies driving aggressively.... |
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02-02-2010, 09:54 PM | #30 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wishart Brisbane
Posts: 28
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A very good article. I'm far from convinced that speed alone is the single biggest issue. I'm probably more of the view that it's the offence that can most cheaply generate the most revenue for the authorities (speed cameras). I don't have an issue at all with red light cameras. I wouldn't appreciate being t-boned by some impatient @rsehole!
Mark
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