NT Speed limits?

[EA Bogan]

Can you still drive unlimited on NT roads? I heard they are introducing a 130 km/h speed limit..i hope not that would be soo gay. Already the most ideal country for a de-limited autobahn (Australia) is messed up by stupid speed restrictions..

[Outbackjack]

Where have you been??

http://www.keepntlimitfree.org/Home/...7/Default.aspx

And the little troll intrduced demerit points as well.

[aye you]

yep, 130km/h on our roads now. add to that red light cameras that will need replacing soon due to heat/disgruntled drivers and demerit points, why leave the south, if clare has her way, the territory life style will be no longer

[superpursuit83]

You have missed one of the pleasures of the NT. Sad sad day that was. Got my last drive in just before the change.

[Keepleft]

I like the shop myself - grabbed three T Shirts, 15 stickers and a keyring!
http://www.keepntlimitfree.org/Shop/...6/Default.aspx


This speed-limit application to NT's key highways really was pointless, and holds inherent danger.

NSW *will* keep (return) the allowance on our books for future application to some remote lengths.

[GreenMachine]

Yeah, it sucks etc, but I did Darwin-Katherine-Humpty Doo-Darwin yesterday (bit over 650k's all up) and I didn't see a SINGLE camera, police car or police bike all day. I was doing well over the 130 limit, and I was still the slowest car on the road, apart from 4-trailer road trains.

It's only a problem if they start enforcing it.

[EA Bogan]

oh well i guess there will always be the massive deserted streches of road that go for 100s of kms without a soul in sight in either directions..the top speed run will never be dead

[Outbackjack]

Old thread, I know....

Look at the numbers now. A speed limit has made ALL the difference hey!!

http://www.nt.gov.au/pfes/index.cfm?...ion=page&p=148

I wonder if some of the roads in other parts of the country, where it is safe, if the limits were removed, would we see a reduction in the road toll??

[Keepleft]

The subject is never too old Jack, ALP of NT is on the nose and some agency employees need to be sacked or 'shifted'.

This was the latest event, NT has matched last years toll under speed derestriction with virtually two months yet to run. Despite now bigger numbers of serving federal police on top of local in the communities.
http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/200...18_ntnews.html

I know the next move to combat these 'speeders' by existing NT GovCo will be to remove 130km/h with a replacement 110km/h, but that is 'typically predictable'.

CLP-NT reaffirms it will reintroduce (//) it seems. They could actually do more than just that I might add.

http://www.keepntlimitfree.org/Forum...s/Default.aspx

[Keepleft]

I had submitted this pic of a (//) sign with a 'play-on-the-mind-reminder', it can be an add-on plate too in design, It should be used at NT border roads if reintroduced in that jurisdiction.

The sign signals a future NSW use of same with similar dimensions per AS1742.4 of 1999.

[Outbackjack]

Hi all, I have emailed our much loved Harold Scruby agian. He went all quiet last time. I hope to get him wound up again.
Here is the letter:

Hello again Mr Scruby, you never got back to me about where you got your figure of "99.9% percent of Australians are against open speed limits where safe". I expect that it was just a turn of phrase on your part.

I would be very interested to hear from you about the current road toll in the NT. As of today it stands at 43 as compared to 37 at the same time last year. It is very clear that the reccomendations of the "task force" got very little correct. It would seem that all that was done was to introduce some speed limits and increase some fines. I think that you and your colleauges need to publicly appologise for pushing your personal agenda's instead of tackling the real causes of our out of control road toll.

My view is that the NT government was gutless in the extreme when it comes to drunk drivers, un-licensed drivers, and those that ignore seating limits and seat belt laws. These are the groups that are pushing up our road toll. Indiginous Australians are also over represented in our road toll.

The feeling in the Territory is that there will be a change of government at the next election ( I personally have my doubts about that) which will see the re-introcuction of the open speed limits on our major highways. I also note with interest that the NSW government is also considering the re-introduction of open limits on selected highways.

I look forward to hearing you views.

All the best, XXXXXXXXXX
Alice Springs, NT.

[Outbackjack]

Looks like I am on his ignore list.

Mr XXXXX

Your comments are noted.

Clearly we do not agree with you about unlimited speed zones.

As such, we do not wish to engage in any further correspondence with you.

Thank you for writing.

These guys hate being proven wrong.

[Fev]

that speedlimit is just there so stupid tourists dont kill themselves.. when we were up there we cruised comfortably at about 160 in a landcruiser

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Fev

that speedlimit is just there so stupid tourists dont kill themselves.. when we were up there we cruised comfortably at about 160 in a landcruiser

I cant help but feel that 160 in a land cruiser is just a bit dangerous.

[TE50 027]

It's a pity they've limited the speed. I clocked up many thousands of km's in the NT (a majority over 150kmh) and never once felt it was dangerous or unsafe. It's probably the main thing that's putting me off moving back up there. It was like a symbol of the laid back lifestyle enjoyed in the NT.

[TE50 027]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

I was still the slowest car on the road, apart from 4-trailer road trains.

I was accused of making up stories a while ago when I mentioned road trains with 4 trailers in the NT. Glad to see someone else has witnessed them.

[GT-E]

I bet the NT never goes back to //. They will blame everything else and just try to enforce the speedlimits as they receive the most revenue.
The only way to stop the money hungry governments from speed taxing us is to make them use the money for road trauma victims or improvements on the roads. If the governments cannot use the money where ever they want, they will be less interested in getting more of it.

[Trevor 57]

Whilst sitting on the side of the raod in Kakadu recently at the scene of a fatal truck accident I was talking to a local policeman who was controling traffic until the helicopter left the scene with the body.

He said that the unlimited speed limits are far too high for some roads, he said that the road we were on (not sure of the name, but the main highway from Darwin to Kakadu) was not good enough for high speeds and I would have to agree with him.

The biggest issue of high speeds is closing speeds, you travel at 160+ and come up behind over the brow of hill and there is a tourist in a Maui van doing 80k's, start thinking about reaction times, plus braking time and there are issues.

Sorry, I am not a fan of high speed on public roads, I guess it is because of the amount of times I have be out to road accidents as a member of an emergency service to cut out the occupants. The general population of Australia don't have the knowledge and skills to be able to do it safely, let alone tourists from all over the world.

As on aptoin, and to be controversial, have open speed limits on all roads in Australia, just speed limit all cars/motorbikes to 120km/h, trucks and buses have to do it, so why not the population who are highly represented in the road toll - car and motobike drivers

[bowsaw]

The reason for the speed limit, which is also why they bought in 0.05, is because the Federal Govt threatened to withhold road funding, its that simple, they held out as long as possible, as they did with the 0.08 in 1995 or so??? cant remember, but i was there. Drive to the conditions is my credo, biggest factor in the tourist season? tourists in 4WD in single vehicle rollovers, 160 in a cruiser???? your mad, what a unstable platform.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by bowsaw

The reason for the speed limit, which is also why they bought in 0.05, is because the Federal Govt threatened to withhold road funding, its that simple, they held out as long as possible, as they did with the 0.08 in 1995 or so??? cant remember, but i was there. Drive to the conditions is my credo, biggest factor in the tourist season? tourists in 4WD in single vehicle rollovers, 160 in a cruiser???? your mad, what a unstable platform.

Apparently the story about federal road funding is a myth. In the CLP write up about their policy to bring back the un limited highways again, they state that this story was nothing but BS generated by Clare Martin so she didn't seem to be quite so bad on the nose. Six months ago I would have said that there is no way that the NT ALP could be voted out at the next state election. Now I am really starting to believe that it is possible. Clare Martin has right royaly stuffed this place up.

[Keepleft]

Big_Trev - Whilst sitting on the side of the raod in Kakadu recently at the scene of a fatal truck accident I was talking to a local policeman who was controling traffic until the helicopter left the scene with the body.

He said that the unlimited speed limits are far too high for some roads, he said that the road we were on (not sure of the name, but the main highway from Darwin to Kakadu) was not good enough for high speeds and I would have to agree with him.

Which is why in 'speed management', I have no problem with rural default speed limit 80 - 90km/h, simply because we can then 'post' speed limit signs up to say 110km/h on better quality lengths, rather than apply (//) to those.

But, for NT's key highways, typically those now bearing 130km/h speed restrictions, those should be returned to speed derestriction.

Your example is not one of the roads I'd derestrict.

The biggest issue of high speeds is closing speeds, you travel at 160+ and come up behind over the brow of hill and there is a tourist in a Maui van doing 80k's, start thinking about reaction times, plus braking time and there are issues.

Gee, (//) would only apply to high-standard rural road "lengths" (and certain motorway class in time) if I had my way, and in any case - Germany seems to manage well enough, as does Austria with its newly signposted 140km/h, Abu Dhabi now @160km/h (up from trial 150), Hungary at 150km/h etc.

Sorry, I am not a fan of high speed on public roads, I guess it is because of the amount of times I have be out to road accidents as a member of an emergency service to cut out the occupants.

Sure, and so we follow this model more and watch the toll increase, as we see. This whole speed-limit thing is way over the top. QLD's toll, despite MORE OF THE SAME is waaay up. Its rubbish, peoples lives are CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP. That much is obvious.

The general population of Australia don't have the knowledge and skills to be able to do it safely, let alone tourists from all over the world.

We did before, and on-road manner and behaviour was a lot more polite and less stressful than now. These days, we drive like pigs, because we can, its the system, it supports this.

European and key jurisdiction middle eastern tourists, are from regions with high speed limits than Australia.

As an option, and to be controversial, have open speed limits on all roads in Australia, just speed limit all cars/motorbikes to 120km/h, trucks and buses have to do it, so why not the population who are highly represented in the road toll - car and motobike drivers.

Which will do wonders for the toll in built-up areas:-) Atm 80% of crashes involing all trauma occure below the existing speed-limit.

Despite drug fuelled fantasies to the contrary, 90% of drivers on a derestrected length of road do not, and will not go out to cap themselves, most of us are quiet capable at driving at safe speed without government 'guidance' and have no intention of suicide.

We will always have a portion of people who cause problems that impact the majority, in all aspects of life, always has been, always will.

Australia is all about bull-sierra-hotel-india-tango on this subject. We can't even get simple things right,- like having expected 'for granted' safety items mandated for our fleet yet.

We don't need more of the 'same', it'll only breed more indifference.

[Fev]

Originally Posted by bowsaw

The reason for the speed limit, which is also why they bought in 0.05, is because the Federal Govt threatened to withhold road funding, its that simple, they held out as long as possible, as they did with the 0.08 in 1995 or so??? cant remember, but i was there. Drive to the conditions is my credo, biggest factor in the tourist season? tourists in 4WD in single vehicle rollovers, 160 in a cruiser???? your mad, what a unstable platform.

well we are obviously not doing it on dirt roads..Landcruisers are very nice and stable drivers and unless your trying to drive it like a sedan you will be fine.

Drive to the conditions should be a motto for the RTA.. its the most simple way to stay safe.. but they would never do it because people would say they were driving to conditions when they were speeding on highways and such.. some people just ruin it for everyone

[Keepleft]

As at 8 November 2007, NT toll now 44 under speed limits, demerits and cameras compared to 37 for the same period last year without rural limits etc.

In NT terms this is an 18.9% Increase

The increased road toll performance is a result of NT Chief Minister Clare Martin, ALP-NT, having contracted the new southern influenced 'road safety package'.

We need a lot more of this expertise for Australia. (SaTaN).

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

As at 8 November 2007, NT toll now 44 under speed limits, demerits and cameras compared to 37 for the same period last year without rural limits etc.

In NT terms this is an 18.9% Increase

The increased road toll performance is a result of NT Chief Minister Clare Martin, ALP-NT, having contracted the new southern influenced 'road safety package'.

We need a lot more of this expertise for Australia. (SaTaN).

So, are you blaming the introduction of speed limits, demerit point system and cameras for the increase in the road toll? I reckon you would be a brave person if you did.

[DivHunter]

It's not rocket surgery.

These garbage policies were set in place and made law and the road toll went up. Same as in Europe and the US, lowering speed limits increases the 'road toll'.

[alstar5]

Bitching about this on a forum won't change a thing (though I can understand why we're doing it). Send your opinions to:

Hon Clare Martin
[email protected]

It only takes a few minutes and if she gets enough of them, just maybe she'll reconsider. Just a thought.

[bowsaw]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Apparently the story about federal road funding is a myth. In the CLP write up about their policy to bring back the un limited highways again, they state that this story was nothing but BS generated by Clare Martin so she didn't seem to be quite so bad on the nose. Six months ago I would have said that there is no way that the NT ALP could be voted out at the next state election. Now I am really starting to believe that it is possible. Clare Martin has right royaly stuffed this place up.

Really? mmm, that was the cause behind 0.8 to 0.5, and they tried to get the speed limit down to, at the same time, i think Perron or Stone were in then. She stuffed it up has she? the other mob hasnt been in Govt for 20 odd yrs lol, have they?

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Fairmont99

It's not rocket surgery.

These garbage policies were set in place and made law and the road toll went up. Same as in Europe and the US, lowering speed limits increases the 'road toll'.

Bull sh!t, idiot drivers make the road toll go up. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work that out.

Some sign on the side of the road doesn't cause people to crash. Convince me how going slower makes the road toll go up, for christs sake.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

Bull sh!t, idiot drivers make the road toll go up. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work that out.

Some sign on the side of the road doesn't cause people to crash. Convince me how going slower makes the road toll go up, for christs sake.

"The sign" be that speed related or directive is part of the systematic management of the road network. Each has effect on a road user in some manner.

So yes, 'the system' here is clearly not functioning well, since the introduction of *new proven measures* at reducing the NT road toll, is clearly failing, and indeed the net effect has been to worsen outcome.

We knew, that imposing a speed-limit of 110km/h as a rural default was plain 'nuts', since that speed is too fast for the crappy roads that the rural default is meant to represent, when by most accounts it should be 80 - 90km/h max.

Higher quality lengths 'within' can be signposted with higher limits or (//).

The 130km/h - is a speed limit used overseas for motorway class roads, a road that is a standard and that applies for many kilometres. NT's highway quality can vary, though are generally speaking 'good quality'. The 130km/h speed-limit should not have been imposed, since 'speed' on those sections where 130km/h was posted was not the primary factor.

The speed limit has had the effect of increasing 'exposure' to crashes, both by additional time on road, and contributory elements such as fatigue etc. A speed limit in effect placed 'nowhere',- creates driver complacency and ingrains bad behaviour in road users over time - as disinterest sets in.

"Speed-limit conditioning" is all part of that. You remove the *requirement and expectation* of having to drive as well as you can, with the low expectation that speed limits bring. That does not mean under (//) you are expected to drive at top speed, but rather at a comfortable speed WITHOUT the constant nagging fear of stealth police enforcement of the numerical speed limit.

The move to remove desrestriction was purely a political one, and had nothing to do with the federal government per se, but certainly Australian academic agencies advocate lower and lower speed-limits. NSW has resisted harsher Victorian advocated speed managment ideals, and no doubt will continue to do so down the chain of governmental command.

[3vXT]

Does anyone have the NT road toll, per year stats, for the last 10 years or so?