'Major announcement' from Toyota this afternoon

[BroadyFord]

Article I just came across, which accurately outlines how the unions destroyed Toyota.

Australian workplace culture partly to blame for Toyota's exit

http://www.theage.com.au/business/co...211-32djv.html

The Australian car-making industry might be on its knees, but Toyota's manufacturing enterprise agreement was still scheduled to deliver two pay rises totalling 5.5 per cent this year.

To cover the $17 million cost of the pay increases, Toyota put a proposal to its manufacturing workers late last year to cut back the three-week compulsory Christmas shutdown, cut down on long weekend sickies and blood-bank rorts, excessive overtime, and shift loadings.

Ford had signalled it would pull out of local production in 2016, and General Motors-Holden was girding its loins for a similar announcement. Local production of Toyota's next generation Camry – and its larger Aurion spinoff – was up for grabs after the current model ran out in 2017. Toyota Motor Corp was due to make the crucial decision this year.

In the circumstances, you'd think the Toyota workers and the Australian Manufacturing Workers' Union would play ball. But instead, the union orchestrated a Federal Court challenge by a handful of shop stewards to prevent Toyota putting the changes to its workers for a vote, citing a "no extra claims" clause in the enterprise agreement.

Justice Mordy Bromberg agreed. He said the company would first have to call a vote to waive the "no extra claims" clause. If they voted in favour of that, it could then put the other changes to a vote. The two-step process would take until well into the new year.

To say that Toyota was dismayed would be an understatement.
By this time – December – two-thirds of the industry had announced it was pulling out, citing the excessive costs of producing cars in Australia. Both Toyota and Holden had argued that it cost about $3800 more to build a car here than it did in alternative plants. About half of that cost was labour, Holden indicated to the Productivity Commission.

Barriers to success

Here was Toyota trying to close a small slice of that gap, with the clock ticking on the fate of local production, and a Federal Court judge was telling the company that it couldn’t put the deal to a vote without first asking the workers to vote out the “no extra claims” clause.

Australia’s arcane and combative industrial relations culture was not the only reason for Toyota’s decision. As the Productivity Commission made clear in its position paper, the country’s tiny market couldn’t sustain competitive production of commodity autos, and was being monstered by the explosion of Asian auto production in the past decade.

But the culture of the workplace was clearly a material reason for the company’s decision to pull out in 2017.

Max Yasuda, Toyota Australia president, had signalled that the giant auto maker was losing patience with Aussie workplace culture in an exclusive interview with this newspaper two years ago. “If you don’t work on Friday, it is a long weekend right? In this country, and in our plant, they just don’t come in and later on they ask for sick leave,” he said.

Months later, Toyota tapped 350 workers for redundancy based on individual ratings of their attendance and workperformance records – an unusually aggressive approach in unionised workplaces in Australia.

The previous year it had been embroiled in a bruising industrial battle with the AMWU over the enterprise agreement. Australian car making was already in trouble, with a soaring dollar and massive global overcapacity in the wake of the global financial crisis. Yet Toyota’s workers went on strike for five days and banned overtime to secure the deal which tripped Toyota up in court and which will give them two pay rises this year – even as the company prepares to pull out.

AMWU vehicle division chief Dave Smith made it clear the union was punishing Toyota for being less willing to sit down and negotiate with its reps as “equals”, as it said Holden had done. The union may now be regretting that decision, although Holden’s experience suggests it may not have made any difference in the long run.

[Xauterus]

While I don't like the actions of the unions. I think they have become the scape goat so there is someone to blame. It really came down to a choice of making cars here for some profit or make them in another country and lots of profit.

What do companies want? If there is a way of making bigger profit then they willl take it.

Unions greedy? Companies greedy? Not that much difference?

Look at all those poor people killed in a building making clothes. Exploited by western big corporations.
Who has the real power?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Xauterus

While I don't like the actions of the unions. I think they have become the scape goat so there is someone to blame. It really came down to a choice of making cars here for some profit or make them in another country and lots of profit.

None of the manufacturers were making a profit off the cars they were making here.

[Xauterus]

Of course any company intending to leave Australia will say they are making no profits. If workers were paid $20 an hour would that have saved the Australian car industry? I don't think so.

[BHDOGS]

Haha yeh no profits at all thats why they stayed here for so long a good tax write off if they wanted to they could of made it look like they were making billions in oz i take company "profits/loss" with a grain of salt considering how slippy there tax accountants can be.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Xauterus

Of course any company intending to leave Australia will say they are making no profits.

You're right. They aren't declaring the cars bought by dealers for cash, and funneling all that money to the Illuminati to help fund the New World Order ....

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by zipping

Governments are not responsible for private enterprise companies and the decisions they make. In the end the public didn't buy enough Australian made cars to sustain the industry. When any company stops making a profit or certain return on investment its reason for existing ceases and the Capital gets invested elsewhere.

Have a look around the world. Other countries support their private enterprise because it keeps their country and population working and prosperous.

Lots of bad decisions everywhere, but former PMs should not be drawing any salary at all. Too much money flowing around to the wrong hands and it's sad to see Australia getting worse and worse due to the fools who made the wrong decisions.

[xrystl]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

During the Productivity Commission hearing phase Holden made a submission and said that on average, there was $15,400 worth of parts and materials in each car they made.

I can't remember whether they said there was $3,800 worth of labor costs in each car, or that it cost $3,800 more than a plant elsewhere to make the same car, but if you add it up the margins do seem to get smaller and smaller.

I did read some of the report that was in the media , pretty sure that the cost included their labour and that the cost of the same product from an Asian manufacturer would be $3800 less than locally manufactured , that is a huge amount that probably could never be overcome given the conditions of building a vehicle in Australia are pretty well set in concrete .
Australians are now fortunate to have a huge choice of manufacturers to choose from and our population is so diverse that buying what your parents bought (car wise) is mostly anything except Ford or Holden - loyalty to a car manufacturer is foolhardy as you gain nothing from it and often buy something that doesn't suit your requirements just to satisfy that loyalty.

[buggerlugs]

http://www.thecourier.com.au/story/2...allarat/?cs=62
Now the little blokes............
http://www.thecourier.com.au/story/2...stralia/?cs=12

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by cheap

I'm not seeing the hypocrisy, some peoples would view the CX9 as a better vehicle.

As to whether the CX9 is better or not, that is subjective and I agree how many could see it as their preferred choice. This is not about which is better. This is about someone who has voted with their feet and bought an import who now is having a go at ford not marketing the territory well which is apparent to him the reason behind Ford folding in Australia. I will say this again. If you haven't bought local, don't say that its a shame cause you had the choice over the years to support the local cars and chose not to.

[prydey]

to those claiming the consumer is to blame,
perhaps you could explain why it is there is so much choice in the australian market?.
perhaps you could explain why that choice has pretty much priced anything local out of the market?
perhaps you could explain how such a fragmented market could still sustain 3 manufacturers even if they did fill the top 3 sales spots each month?

to maintain the necessary volume, they would need to sell more than double what the best selling car is currently selling. it just isn't going to happen.

blaming the consumer is a cop out.

dropping tariffs ensured australia became a dumping ground for the worlds auto makers.

free trade agreements just put extra nails (possibly final nails) in the coffin. this is the result of a downhill that started a long time ago, so pointing the finger at the person who is left standing when the music stops is a bit naive.

govt policies (state and federal) also affected the sales of local products when they started listening to minority groups that largely don't care about 'the people', but rather think they are doing some sort of good that gives them a warm fuzzy feeling.

australias electricity costs are now amongst the dearest in the world.

after all 3 manufaturers close up, all citing high costs, low volume and lack of protection, people still try to point the fingers elsewhere.

the fact is, australia made large cars, and suv, a small car and a hybrid and yet all 3 are still going. i don't think the type of car plays that big a role. 1 million buyers a year is a very small market to try to support manufacturing in your own country, esp when the head office has other manufacturing plants all around the world that are much better protected by their govts.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by prydey

to those claiming the consumer is to blame,
perhaps you could explain why it is there is so much choice in the australian market?.
perhaps you could explain why that choice has pretty much priced anything local out of the market?
perhaps you could explain how such a fragmented market could still sustain 3 manufacturers even if they did fill the top 3 sales spots each month?

to maintain the necessary volume, they would need to sell more than double what the best selling car is currently selling. it just isn't going to happen.

blaming the consumer is a cop out.

dropping tariffs ensured australia became a dumping ground for the worlds auto makers.

free trade agreements just put extra nails (possibly final nails) in the coffin. this is the result of a downhill that started a long time ago, so pointing the finger at the person who is left standing when the music stops is a bit naive.

govt policies (state and federal) also affected the sales of local products when they started listening to minority groups that largely don't care about 'the people', but rather think they are doing some sort of good that gives them a warm fuzzy feeling.

australias electricity costs are now amongst the dearest in the world.

after all 3 manufaturers close up, all citing high costs, low volume and lack of protection, people still try to point the fingers elsewhere.

the fact is, australia made large cars, and suv, a small car and a hybrid and yet all 3 are still going. i don't think the type of car plays that big a role. 1 million buyers a year is a very small market to try to support manufacturing in your own country, esp when the head office has other manufacturing plants all around the world that are much better protected by their govts.

All very true reasons there Prydey.

I haven't really followed this thread, mainly because most of us knew a long time ago that once one manufacturer pulls out, the other two would follow shortly after.

And the reasons why, has already been discussed many times over in AFF, which Prydey has patiently pointed out again.

So, even though its very disappointing, there's nothing surprising at all with Toyotas announcement.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Euro's overpriced ?

Nope look at a new Skoda, Renault, or Peugeot for starters.

Don't only look at BMW or Mercedes to support your argument.

I didn't. I also think Peugeot and Renault are overpriced. Skoda are irrelevant.

Everyone knows Euros are overpriced (especially when optioned up to the level they should be) in Aust compared to most other markets, it's surprising you haven't heard of this before.....

[gtfpv]

well i'm keeping my head down . work while i can and the lush days are over . i have a pretty secure job . not gauranteed but secure . i'm paying off my mortgage only now , as most of my friends have decided too , the others are taking punts and borrowing up big while it lasts .
i'm almost ready to admit the fight is over . the younger generation will have to deal with this one . AUSTRALIA has become a holiday resort for the rich , the rich can do business anywhere in the world and live here . the rest of us well i'm not sure how they intend to keep us going .
It's becoming a trend to sell out australia , to move your business away , the roll on effect will continue , people have lost faith in australia , have lost any intention to make it a better place . the top end corperations want the $$$ elswhere , and personal wealth . i guess theres not much more to say .

[neptune blue]

Originally Posted by prydey

to those claiming the consumer is to blame,
perhaps you could explain why it is there is so much choice in the australian market?.
perhaps you could explain why that choice has pretty much priced anything local out of the market?
perhaps you could explain how such a fragmented market could still sustain 3 manufacturers even if they did fill the top 3 sales spots each month?

to maintain the necessary volume, they would need to sell more than double what the best selling car is currently selling. it just isn't going to happen.

blaming the consumer is a cop out.

dropping tariffs ensured australia became a dumping ground for the worlds auto makers.

free trade agreements just put extra nails (possibly final nails) in the coffin. this is the result of a downhill that started a long time ago, so pointing the finger at the person who is left standing when the music stops is a bit naive.

govt policies (state and federal) also affected the sales of local products when they started listening to minority groups that largely don't care about 'the people', but rather think they are doing some sort of good that gives them a warm fuzzy feeling.

australias electricity costs are now amongst the dearest in the world.

after all 3 manufaturers close up, all citing high costs, low volume and lack of protection, people still try to point the fingers elsewhere.

the fact is, australia made large cars, and suv, a small car and a hybrid and yet all 3 are still going. i don't think the type of car plays that big a role. 1 million buyers a year is a very small market to try to support manufacturing in your own country, esp when the head office has other manufacturing plants all around the world that are much better protected by their govts.

I disagree that the consumer isn't to blame - partially
If you look at the US and the choice of cars they have on the market, American cars are still selling and in big numbers

Try selling a Toyota in Korea they won't buy them

Australians don't give a dam about buying australian
Sure there were other forces that played a roll in the demise of the car manufacturing industry but we didn't help when we could have

As I have already posted we did not back our own product

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

I disagree that the consumer isn't to blame - partially
If you look at the US and the choice of cars they have on the market, American cars are still selling and in big numbers

Try selling a Toyota in Korea they won't buy them

Australians don't give a dam about buying australian
Sure there were other forces that played a roll in the demise of the car manufacturing industry but we didn't help when we could have

As I have already posted we did not back our own product

Agree.

When I was in France, most of the cars are Peugeot, Citroen, Renault. In the UK, you can't give away a Mazda 3. You're right we are so different as a country and in what we choose to support. Its not about blue vs red here. Its about do we as a nation back the stuff our locals produce. There is an obvious answer to that.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

I disagree that the consumer isn't to blame - partially
If you look at the US and the choice of cars they have on the market, American cars are still selling and in big numbers

Try selling a Toyota in Korea they won't buy them

Australians don't give a dam about buying australian
Sure there were other forces that played a roll in the demise of the car manufacturing industry but we didn't help when we could have

As I have already posted we did not back our own product

How can you compare countries that have numerous brands and numerous models per brand, to what we have here in Australia? We have 4 - 5 models. At least 3 of them in a segment that has tanked. Do you really expect everyone to choose between 5 cars? Seriously?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

I disagree that the consumer isn't to blame - partially
If you look at the US and the choice of cars they have on the market, American cars are still selling and in big numbers

Try selling a Toyota in Korea they won't buy them

Australians don't give a dam about buying australian
Sure there were other forces that played a roll in the demise of the car manufacturing industry but we didn't help when we could have

As I have already posted we did not back our own product

A check the list of top selling cars in Seppoland in 2013 you get....
http://www.examiner.com/article/amer...hicles-of-2013

1 and 2 Ford and Chev pickups.
3 Camry
4 Honda
5 Chrysler
6 Honda
7 Nissan
8-9-10 Ford, Toyota, Honda.

Not exactly supporting supporting the home product, but then they have a population of about 314 million. Not 22 million like us.

[nstg8a]

That's just it, the American market is so big, that a model that barely rates in the top ten still has large enough volumes to make it worthwhile to manufacture.

[XR Martin]

Australia has more brands and models than the US I think you'll find.

[CyberWasp]

Take the 25% Tariff away and lets see how the pickups fare.
That is where most of their profit comes from.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Australia has more brands and models than the US I think you'll find.

Anything to prove that? I am a little skeptical of that comment.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Anything to prove that? I am a little skeptical of that comment.

it in here, as everything you may want to know..

http://www.holden.com.au/resources/d...eport_2012.pdf

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by burnz

it in here, as everything you may want to know..

http://www.holden.com.au/resources/d...eport_2012.pdf

May be it is I am just so tired right now but I couldn't find anything in that document that proves Australia's vehicle market offers more brands and models that the US.

[XR Martin]

Wheels mag had an article on it a few months ago, next time I go to the shitter ill take a bunch with me and see if I can find it.

[csv8]

We might get these Camry's ??
http://www.toyota.com/camry/features...2532/2546/2540

[robertjp]

Originally Posted by csv8

We might get these Camry's ??
http://www.toyota.com/camry/features...2532/2546/2540

Looking further down did you see the Avalon, will they try and resurect the ads for one if they do? :

[Maka]

'Mooching' car makers should pay back government subsidies: MP
(with thanks to Latika Bourke & ABC)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-1...sidies/5255944


A Federal Government MP has lashed out at the car makers abandoning the country, accusing them of not giving a stuff about their workers or the country, and "mooching off" taxpayers for years only to "cut and run when the going got tough".

LNP MP George Christensen says the companies should repay whatever taxpayer subsidies they have received in the past few years, now they are departing.

Toyota's announcement this week that it would be closing down its Australian operations in 2017 marked the death of the local car industry.

It followed last year's announcements by Holden and Ford to pull out of Australia.

Mr Christensen says his own Government has been treating the heavily subsidised industry with "kid gloves" and needs to toughen up, and demand compensation from the car makers.

"There's been some kid gloves put on the car industry but I've got to say, I'm not a fan of what they've done," Mr Christensen told the ABC.

"They have been almost a parasitic industry on the taxpayer and when the going has got tough they've cut and run.


Video: George Christensen speaks with Latika Bourke (ABC News)
"The Labor Party is blaming the Government but who's pointed the finger at the car industry and said, 'you guys have mooched off the taxpayer with corporate welfare for so long but when the going got tough, you've cut and run and you've left so many workers in the lurch'."

Mr Christensen says the car makers should consider giving back the unspent subsidies they have received.

"General Motors, Ford, Toyota have all got a lot to answer for," he said.

"Anything that's been handed to them over the last three to five years probably should come back to the taxpayers."

But he conceded it would be unlikely the car makers would return any funds to taxpayers because they "don't give a stuff" about Australia.

"That's why they're leaving, that's why they're heading to overseas markets where the labour rates are substantially lower," he said.

"They've done this country no favours, all they've done is take our money – pay it back.

"They knew that sooner or later they were going to be leaving and they still had their hand out for taxpayer dollars, that's not right."

Mr Christensen agreed remaining tariffs on imported cars should be removed now there was no local industry to protect, but said they should stay in place until the last Australian car had been built.

[prydey]

do these clowns in parliament stop to think about the revenue brought in compared to the subsidies given?? the govt is well in front. how do these numpties even get in to the positions they do.

every worker there also pays tax. there's a lot less income tax the govt will be getting in the coming years. well thought out mr christenson.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Wretched

May be it is I am just so tired right now but I couldn't find anything in that document that proves Australia's vehicle market offers more brands and models that the US.

i believe it is actually true, although most mainstream marques are shared, and the US even has some that australia doesn't, however i believe overall australia has the most marques and models available compared to US.