The People's Cart company in the news again

[mik]

Yes indeed , you could actually see some dealers in dire straights over this, you have to wonder if this might sink the VW company..

[MITCHAY]

Clever software but extremely dumb to allow this to happen. What concerns me the most is that VW may have factored in the costs of this being found out eventually and still come up tops.

[2011G6E]

There are videos on the net showed a VW on an AWD dyno so they could spin the back wheels to equal the driving front wheels to "fool" the car into thinking it was being driven normally. It produced a certain amount of power and torque.
They then drove it as they would in emissions testing...just the front wheels driving the dyno, and all sorts of warning lights lit up on the dash and the car produced much less power and torque. But better emissions.

A spokesman even said on the news that cars could be taken to dealers and detuned to meet the regulations the Yanks demand.

Detuned.

So I'll ask again...who would happily turn up to have your car "fixed" to produce less power and torque (and possibly less fuel economy) just to suit some green knobtards...?

Really?
Sure you would...

[MITCHAY]

I think you have rocks in your head to accept to have your car detuned. No way in hell would I accept that.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I think you have rocks in your head to accept to have your car detuned. No way in hell would I accept that.

I'd then be going back to VW for my car not meeting advertised performance and economy figures.

I did read somewhere that it would take VW a few months to come up with software updates that met emission standards, and maintain performance and economy figures.

I'm wondering if VW can actually achieve that, or maybe some inferior figures may be quietly slipped in hoping people won't notice...

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

I'd then be going back to VW for my car not meeting advertised performance and economy figures.

I did read somewhere that it would take VW a few months to come up with software updates that met emission standards, and maintain performance and economy figures.

I'm wondering if VW can actually achieve that, or maybe some inferior figures may be quietly slipped in hoping people won't notice...

If they actually could obtain the claimed performance figures and meet emissions standards at the same, it would seem pretty backwards to bother doing this at all.

[In Focus]

A lot of VW products are under-quoted on power and torque, though whether they will have sufficient leeway after making the relevant changes seems unlikely.

[new2ford]

I'm surprised that a lot of people seem to have no problem of conscience accepting higher emissions if that's what it takes to keep the optimum tune! Emissions in cites in particular are a very serious problem and health issue (not least for the regular users of diesel vehicles).

If this episode hastens the end of use of diesels in cars, the sooner the better. It was always a marketing fraud based only on fuel consumption/costs which people are obsessed with. There is no WOL cost advantage. At the same time, big advances have occurred in petrol and hybrid technology.

What will happen in Europe will determine the fate of diesels in cars as that's where most of them come from. There is a big push to remove diesels from European cities and the discovery that their benefits might be faked will be a big nail in the coffin. And for resale reasons alone I wouldn't buy one now.

[2011G6E]

A little reality check about the Yanks and their VW stir up over "emissions"...

For example, Americans can happily drive around in massive oversized trucks with 7 liter-plus V8 petrol engines, and they're complaining about VW diesels being "dirty", yet they won't let in vehicles like the Hilux turbo diesel because it "doesn't meet US requirements"...

So who's the bad guy...? VW, or the overly strict and restrictive United States EPA testing regime...?

When you look at this list (nearly all of which are easily and legally available here in Australia) you have to come to the conclusion they just don't like them goddamn foreign cars and want to protect their car industry...

http://www.odometer.com/rides/33511/...mpaign=fbpdoff

[XR Martin]

You realise that the same VWs wernt meeting the Euro emission standards either?

They were basically claiming to be Euro 6 when in fact they were lucky to be meeting Euro 5 standards.

Where are these 7L+ pickup trucks you talk about too?

[FG50T]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

A little reality check about the Yanks and their VW stir up over "emissions"...

For example, Americans can happily drive around in massive oversized trucks with 7 liter-plus V8 petrol engines, and they're complaining about VW diesels being "dirty", yet they won't let in vehicles like the Hilux turbo diesel because it "doesn't meet US requirements"...

So who's the bad guy...? VW, or the overly strict and restrictive United States EPA testing regime...?

When you look at this list (nearly all of which are easily and legally available here in Australia) you have to come to the conclusion they just don't like them goddamn foreign cars and want to protect their car industry...

http://www.odometer.com/rides/33511/...mpaign=fbpdoff

Overly strict? You think a country like that doesn't need strict EPA? The link you posted is rubbish by the way. Look at the availability of cars in the U.S. I don't think they're complaining they missed out on a few obscure hipo-cars from the 80s/90s and the Patrol, Hilux, Amarok.

[mik]

By the sound of it even the big 7 litre trucks would have way better emissions than the dirty evil volksy oiler, allegedly its up to 40 times out of emission range.

[2011G6E]

I wonder...how much diesel pollution is caused by the thousands upon thousands of semis running all over the country each and ever day...?

I'd lay money it's far more than a fleet of VW's with dodgy software which are returning 4 and 5ltr/100km on the highway...

People have weird priorities...you can't have your cake and eat it too. You hate diesels in passenger cars? You want them banned? Fine...just realise that the diesels that are left are a hundred times filthier than our cars and four wheel drives ever were...

Be careful what you wish for...

[mik]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I wonder...how much diesel pollution is caused by the thousands upon thousands of semis running all over the country each and ever day...?

I'd lay money it's far more than a fleet of VW's with dodgy software which are returning 4 and 5ltr/100km on the highway...

People have weird priorities...you can't have your cake and eat it too. You hate diesels in passenger cars? You want them banned? Fine...just realise that the diesels that are left are a hundred times filthier than our cars and four wheel drives ever were...

Be careful what you wish for...

if you scale the volksey engine up to 12.7/15 litres then i will take your bet no problems..

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by mik

if you scale the volksey engine up to 12.7/15 litres then i will take your bet no problems..

But it's not. They also don't do the number of kilometers per year that trucks of all sized from small to monsterous triples and road trains do. If you want to start comparisons, then how much would a family sedan with a "cheating" 2 liter engine doing 30,000km a year produce compared to a 15 liter engine in a semi doing 200,000km a year...? Not to even get to diesel powered trains and ships...

Jesus, green groups are doing enough damage already without car enthusiasts doing their work for them by siding with the private-car-haters and demanding one of the most efficient light vehicle fuels be done away with.

Good on VW for finding a way around the ludicrously strict EPA requirements in the USA. Well done for finding a way to make cars do exactly what they're supposed to...get good power and economy and who the hell cares about the emissions from private cars. They wouldn't add up to a tenth of the emissions of trucks, buses, and other large diesel powered vehicles around the world each year.

Until everyone is riding natural gas powered public transport (and even then feeling guilty about it) green groups will never be happy.

Oh...and the EPA...? They can crow from the rooftops on the world stage about evil VW now...
And I guess this has conveniently at least taken peoples minds off...well...this little issue which was thier fault but has been completely forgotten after a swelling rise of public and world anger...
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/10/us...e-river-spill/

[new2ford]

^^
Not sure if all your facts stack up there. The concerns with diesel are not due to green groups, its a basic public health and pollution issue in cities. And that's mostly cars.

I agree about protectionism issues with US auto industry but VW has also breached emission standards and/or made false claims (consumer rights issue) in many jurisdictions around the world. That's a big problem on either count.

[mik]

Originally Posted by new2ford

^^
Not sure if all your facts stack up there. The concerns with diesel are not due to green groups, its a basic public health and pollution issue in cities. And that's mostly cars.

I agree about protectionism issues with US auto industry but VW has also breached emission standards and/or made false claims (consumer rights issue) in many jurisdictions around the world. That's a big problem on either count.

yes they (v dub ) deserve their collective asses kicked, its one thing to fudge fuel economy figures by a litre or two , but breaching emissions by 20/30/40 times the limit , that is a big deal , and earlier on they had the ordacity to accept a green car award .

[Sprintey]

And the man lined up for new US VW CEO quits:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/1...0S81HE20151014

VW also cutting development budget; potential exposure now mooted at 35Bn

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

And the man lined up for new US VW CEO quits:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/1...0S81HE20151014

VW also cutting development budget; potential exposure now mooted at 35Bn

Cutting development budget... So no more Stupatti Veyron?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Cutting development budget... So no more Stupatti Veyron?

I assume you're referring to Bugatti Veyron.
Production finished a while back, there are no more being made.

The next model is the Chrion and it is still on track for release.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ed-as-planned/

VW may be in trouble but the budge for the Bugatti was already signed off years ago and a lot of it used. I don't believe they would can the project (it would still be leveraging off the R&D from the Veyron).

[FG50T]

It's the automotive equivalent of performance enhancing steroids. You know everyones on it, but who's going to get pulled for it first to shoot a warning? It's not enough car makers have to keep up with consumers and other brands figures but they have to stay in line with the epa's controls whilst still trying to make profits.

[Syndrome]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKef1JFpiCA

[mik]

found this article comparing small car diesel emissions to bus/truck emissions.
as expected some other diesel branded cars doing the real world test , failed the test miserably .
didnt really surprise me that heavy diesel engines for their size where much cleaner , as the commercial heavy vehicle engine makers put a lot more effort into emission control.

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...s-data-reveals

[FNQracing]

What annoys me is the number of people that have deserted Falcon / Commodore for Das Auto thinking they are getting a far superior product. The fuel economy claims never add up. By the time people realise the local cars were actually pretty good (and didn't cheat), it will be all too late.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by mik

found this article comparing small car diesel emissions to bus/truck emissions.
as expected some other diesel branded cars doing the real world test , failed the test miserably .
didnt really surprise me that heavy diesel engines for their size where much cleaner , as the commercial heavy vehicle engine makers put a lot more effort into emission control.

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...s-data-reveals

But the bus industry is already on the road to abandoning diesel in citybuses because they're too dirty, so where does that leave the car industry?!

DIesel buses are already banned from a number of European city centres. The major European bus manufacturer IVECO is already down to 85% diesel buses in its portfolio, by 2018 they estimate 60% and by 2025 30%, basically long distance buses. The replacements are largely electric buses, although gas buses figure a little.

The dieselgate affair has lifted the lid on a pandora's box. The writing is on the wall.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by FNQracing

What annoys me is the number of people that have deserted Falcon / Commodore for Das Auto thinking they are getting a far superior product. The fuel economy claims never add up. By the time people realise the local cars were actually pretty good (and didn't cheat), it will be all too late.

Please, even if the Euro diesel had a little less power or used a bit more fuel, people would still have bought the it over a Falcon.

Don't forget Falcon or Territory claims of fuel consumption were optimistic at best.

Not saying what they did is right, just don't understand if they simply met with the regs and made a bit less power sales probably would be no different. Very strange engineering decision for seemingly little benefit.

[Sprintey]

Rubbish. Our Territory consistently has achieved its sticker. I've got sticker consumption from FG XR6, BF XR6, hell even back to ED GLi.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Rubbish. Our Territory consistently has achieved its sticker. I've got sticker consumption from FG XR6, BF XR6, hell even back to ED GLi.

Agreed, my XR50 has consistently achieved far less than the published economy figures for the XR6 manual.

Ford is known to be somewhat conservative with published economy figures, there are threads on this subject in this forum.

[new2ford]

+1 for our Territory too. Perhaps it's just honesty.

Also getting sticker figures for the BMW but not for the VAG group car yet.

[Stefan]

LMFAO....A RWD 2007 Tezza is suppose to achieve 12.2L/100.

Down hill in neutral maybe.