Ford Falcon BA-FG Coilovers

[Shockworks]

Originally Posted by raband

Brett

Mate

Any chance of a discount on a second set of coilovers?

I want the one set on the car and another set to cuddle at night.
I swear - if these things could brew hot coffee in the morning I'd marry them.

As good as they were on my first impression - tonight I was blown away again.

Had to take the kids up to Yea from Frankston - up through Toolangi etc (not the best/smoothest road at the best of times) - and the conditions were totally horrendous. We're talking wipers on max constantly, large puddles of standing water, rivers flowing across the road, maybe 10-20m visibility at times and rain covering the road so the surface was a mystery - that sort of stuff.

Hit my first "water hazard" just after Yarra Glen - one of those puddles that cover about half the road - only the left hand tyre track ones. Mate - the car reacted about as much as a Sherman Tank would have. Seriously - I was expecting the usual "grab" and steering response from the LH front but there was ABSOLUTELY nothing. I'm not talking "ooh - that was heaps better than before". I'm saying ZERO effect on the car, the steering or the handling.

This continued the whole way there and back.

Next one that opened my eyes was a part where 2 roads and a side road meet. Imagine a 10m stretch where 3 different layers of asphalt (1 from each road) meet, never smoothed down, potholes, divots, lines scored in the road etc. This part has always unsettled the car - even at 80km/h in the dry. Tonght, at 100km/h and in the wet (same standing water as mentioned above) it may as well have been freshly paved. I felt the surface changes - my passengers felt the surface changes, but the car just laughed at them and shrugged them off.

With those mentioned I thought I was done with being impressed for the night.

Nup - not at all.

On the way back (after dropping the kids off) there's a nice, 2 lane roundabout where I often use the outside lane to sneak past some slower moving vehicles when turning right (both lanes can turn right - the last roundabout on the Yarra Glenn bypass for those who know the area). You sort of hook left then sweep right to get through this roundabout - ideally with a bit more speed than the cars in the inside lane, so you can exit the roundabout ahead of them where the lanes merge.
Here I was, waiting for the body roll and awkwardness on the change of direction from the left hook and into the right sweep as it's always given me..... Nup. Not tonight. There was no body roll, no shifting of weight and absolutely no awkwardness - this was like going through the "S"'s in a go-kart instead of a rollercoaster in a boat compared to how it was before. I almost turned around and did it again it was such a different experience.

Shortly after this roundabout you get the sharp left over train tracks - even at 20km/h the rear would jump around, chatter and argue over them. Tonight it was as if there wasn't even 2 rear wheels on the car. Not only did the car not react at all to the tracks - I didn't even feel the slightest bump.

The confidence these coilover give me and the car is unbelievable. I'm not talking "Awesome, I can take this corner 20km/h faster than I could before" gusto type confidence. I'm talking one hand on the wheel, relaxed, enjoying the drive rather than two hand gripping, white knuckles, bloodshot eyes peering into the pelting rain trying to see what the roads like ahead type confidence. 2 hours up, 2 hours back in some really terrible driving conditions and stepping out of the car feeling rested type confidence.

AAA+++ would buy again type confidence ;)

All that said - I will disclose that I'm coming from a stock suspension setup with no experience of any other solutions that are out there, but I can honestly say I'd be very surprised if any other combination of shocks, swaybars, springs, bushes etc could possibly have been a better setup for me. I am blown away by how stiff and flat my car now handles, yet how compliant and comfortable the suspension is. On absolutely everything that's been thrown at it so far.

And I've only done 300km's on them between picking the car up, my 1st impression cruise and getting home tonight - could not have imagined a better, short test if I'd been asked to.

Am still hoping to see how they go on a couple of dirt roads with different surfaces and also after I've had a play with the dampening and found a few places to attack with a bit of anger, but they have already paid for themselves with the differences I've noticed in even this short time. Hopefully I can get to the other environments while the stock setup is still fresh in my mind so the comparisons will be apparent.

Again Brett - can I have another set. Preferably in a nice sheer teddy? :P

Hey Raband,
You should be writing for Motor!! You crack me up with all the funny stuff but very much appreciate the detailed feedback. I will try to arrange a Shockworks teddy for you haha.
During the development of the dampers, we tested on so many different surfaces and conditions, including badly rutted dirt roads so hope you like them as well. We stuck to many of the normal testing procedures I had learned working (couldn't really call it work haha) at the Ford PG. One guy in particular, (Robert Hall) I was so lucky to work with, as he is the master of feeling what is going on with all four wheels and took me quite some time before I was even close to feeling what he did. I love the Ford product and also going back now and sell the R34 and get back into a FG XR6 as I get too sad when I test drive a customers car.
Thanks again for all the great feedback.

Cheers
Brett

[raband]

Nah - am usually pretty blunt and answer with yes/no or "it's pretty good" type responses.

It's just the differences in this case being so apparent and easy to describe while the stock setup is still fresh in my memory that causes me to be a bit more verbose. It's easy to write stuff down when it's pretty much the exact thoughts that are occurring in your head.

The fact that the changes it brought to the vehicle are relatable/describable (even poorly) by a plonker like me says a lot more for it than any words I could use.

[gtxxr6]

another great review from me, i agree completely with raband
putting around on normal roads you easily forget the car isnt using stock suspension
hit rough roads with speed where you normally would cringe or grimace coming into a bumpy section, you are met with relief, it honestly feels like you are driving down the freeway.
100% transforms the car completely for the better, i have done around 500km now and 350km of that is in the hills and i cannot complain about 1 single thing. the kit was easy to install, came preset to the perfect height and for the first time in ages wasnt left thinking, "gee i wish i got more product for my $2k ive just handed over" and was left completley satisfied. so much so that after the first drive with the shocks i bought the brake kit aswell (installing it tomorrow morning will report back)

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Shockworks

During the development of the dampers, we tested on so many different surfaces and conditions, including badly rutted dirt roads

You talking about your driveway Brett ...
Still have that memory the day I had them fitted in your workshop and then getting out of your driveway for a test drive. Was scared I'd leave the front bar of the GT behind.

That 1st drive was magic hey. Even with the bald sport maxx in the wet , the car behaved and changed direction beautifully.

[raband]

What you remember of that day is what I'm experiencing now Bluey

Well said gtxxr6 - am waiting for the rears to be released for the brake set and will probably jump on the full set. Might make a time to drop into Monbulk to confirm the kit will fit my with my rims before I get my hopes up though. Want to keep the 19's the car came with (LE rims) - main reason I haven't looked at Brembo's.

[gtxxr6]

what car? can test one of your wheels on mine if you want. im installing them around 9 tomorrow morning, ill be getting my guards rolled in langy around 6ish? if you have a full size spare will only take 2 seconds to check.. ill bring a 10mm spacer with me to see if you only need a small spacer to make them fit

[gtxxr6]

oh you're the dude who got em done at pitlane? my car will be at aps on tuesday getting retuned also if thats any help i can swing past pitlane at some point around 5-530

[raband]

Ah cheers,

Thanks heaps for the offer, but am tied up tuesday. No rush to see if they fit - need to wait for both the rears to hit market and for the wallet to rebound from the coilovers ;)

Good luck with your install - looking forward to your comments.

[Shockworks]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

You talking about your driveway Brett ...
Still have that memory the day I had them fitted in your workshop and then getting out of your driveway for a test drive. Was scared I'd leave the front bar of the GT behind.

That 1st drive was magic hey. Even with the bald sport maxx in the wet , the car behaved and changed direction beautifully.

Hey Bluey,
The drive way just got worse with all the rain and very slippery so great for front end throws to turn around for a while haha!
Can't wait to now get me an FG XR6T. It's too much driving customers cars and not have one. It will also help us with much quicker development of new parts and improvements for the Ford's
Cheers mate!!

[raband]

Good to hear Brett

Looking at a tune after you fit the coilovers?

[graphicgoose]

Originally Posted by Shockworks

Hey Bluey,
The drive way just got worse with all the rain and very slippery so great for front end throws to turn around for a while haha!
Can't wait to now get me an FG XR6T. It's too much driving customers cars and not have one. It will also help us with much quicker development of new parts and improvements for the Ford's
Cheers mate!!

Like testing and tuning with 255/35/19 front and 295/30/19 rear tyres with your coilover kit for the FG? ;)

[Shockworks]

Originally Posted by raband

Good to hear Brett

Looking at a tune after you fit the coilovers?

We will be always seeing what we can do to improve the kit as we have done but now, will be a little more efficient. I will be able to live with the test parts.
We should also develop a tuning for the 295 rear and 255 front. When we tried for an FPV product, we were limited with available parts and rates. Too much understeer. We have more options now:-)
Cheers

[graphicgoose]

Originally Posted by Shockworks

We should also develop a tuning for the 295 rear and 255 front. When we tried for an FPV product, we were limited with available parts and rates. Too much understeer. We have more options now:-)
Cheers

Awesome stuff Brett! I'll be super keen on the results of your testing/tuning with this setup and your coilovers. Is this something you could foresee happening in the near future, or somewhat further down the track?

[dl86]

No under steer here! You need to set the wheel alignment properly. I got mine set to 3mm toe in rear and 2mm toe out front with as much neg camber as possible although I'll be after more on the front by drilling out my control arm mounts.

Got my first track day on the 28th at Wakefield park with Trackschool.com.au and i'll be getting lap times so will be interesting.

[furiousgibbon]

is there a suggested setting for track driving? My F6 is completely stock except for these coilovers, Sport Maxx with around 10,000km on them. I've settled on 4 clicks from full hard at the front, 5 clicks at the rear for daily driving.

I did try 2 at the front, 3 at the rear for a couple of weeks, but it was a little firm for the commute to work. I also tried some 'spirited' driving at this setting and found mid corner understeer. Is that normal for these tyres, or is it a sign that the front end is too stiff, or that the rear end should be stiffened more?

I'm driving in an event next week which is a point to point course with very little room for error, so I'd like to err on the side of understeer, but not plough understeer.

btw 5,000km in and I still love these coilovers. Great ride quality, rapidly adjustable, perfect drop. From the discussions here and on other forums they seem to be selling well too, great to see a good product achieve such popularity through word of mouth.

[dl86]

No particular settings. Although a good set of guidelines can be found here.

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...ion-Guide.aspx

Generally -2.5 to -3 neg camber front, -1 to -2 neg rear and the toe angles I suggested would work well from what I gathered. Front toe out for better turn in and slightly more rear toe in than front toe out to help keep the car steady in a turn. I found running zero rear toe caused the car to snap over-steer mid corner with too much throttle which was a scary experience to say the least.

When I had sportmaxx I used to understeer very easily almost having to come to a full stop to do a sharp turn. A rubbish tyre. Then moved to the Bridgestone RE11's in the stock size which helped a lot now I'm running a smaller light weight 18" rim in a custom size with even stickier rubber and the car snaps into place where ever you aim. Don't waste your time with normal performance street tyres for track work. Look at any of the extreme performance summer tyres for a dual duty street/track set up a couple that come to mind

Bridgestone RE11
Hankook RS3
Kumho Ecsta XS KU36
Yokohama Advan AD08R

[furiousgibbon]

thanks, I was actually just curious about ideal stiffness of the coilovers, but your post is helpful. I suppose camber plates would be necessary and based on the fact I can't even get a decent wheel alignment (even from reputed suspension shops), I don't think I'd bother getting the toe adjusted for this event. I'll check the print out I was given after alignment post coilover install. Will definitely keep in mind for future events.

Wheels and tyres (18" R888s) are on the list but the street tyres will have to do the job this time, I don't enter to win or place anywhere near the top half, not really possible with a street car, I just wanna get out there and have fun safely! I've done this event twice before on KU31s, can't get much more average than that...

in regards to my original question though, given an otherwise standard car with coilovers, is there such a thing as 'too stiff'? I haven't had adjustable suspension before (other than anti roll bars), so it's new to me. I would think that if the car is too rigid, the outside tyre may not get loaded enough to achieve its full grip level.

[gtxxr6]

i run max soft rear and 4 clicks up at front, but i have cheap tyres on the car at the moment so i need it soft for grip
when i get better tyres ill start to play with the setup a bit more.
brakes went on, and other than me not being able to bleed them right the first time (only had black hose so couldnt see if bubbles were coming out still)
i finally got them bled up and heated right up and very impressed. hard to tell on the street cos again, i have cheap tyres and on my ute i have semi's but these bite nearly as good as the 6pot brembos i had with endless pads (again, id say they only feel a touch better due to much better tyres)
once i get good tyres it will be easier to feel what the brakes are doing

[gtxxr6]

Originally Posted by furiousgibbon

thanks, I was actually just curious about ideal stiffness of the coilovers, but your post is helpful. I suppose camber plates would be necessary and based on the fact I can't even get a decent wheel alignment (even from reputed suspension shops), I don't think I'd bother getting the toe adjusted for this event. I'll check the print out I was given after alignment post coilover install. Will definitely keep in mind for future events.

Wheels and tyres (18" R888s) are on the list but the street tyres will have to do the job this time, I don't enter to win or place anywhere near the top half, not really possible with a street car, I just wanna get out there and have fun safely! I've done this event twice before on KU31s, can't get much more average than that...

in regards to my original question though, given an otherwise standard car with coilovers, is there such a thing as 'too stiff'? I haven't had adjustable suspension before (other than anti roll bars), so it's new to me. I would think that if the car is too rigid, the outside tyre may not get loaded enough to achieve its full grip level.

only way you will know what works for your car with your tyres is by playing with the setup
start at full soft and slowly stiffen it up til it feels grippy. keep going til it starts giving trouble then go back. can easily find ideal settings within a few hours of driving on a weekend. the more you know about how the car reacts to adjustment the easier it is to adjust it to different types of roads etc

[gtxxr6]

sacked the car today all round.. looks great but handling performance definatley drops off which brett told me it would. still drives very nice even through the city, very comfortable still just a fair amount of driveline vibration etc and far less grip than when it was at ideal height. will leave it for now til i go to the drags and then ill probably keep it high. its just so much nicer to drive when its higher

[furiousgibbon]

drove the F6 in the McRae Rallysprint yesterday, I did a bit of testing in the morning (track day session) and ended up with the coilovers set 8/10 front and 7/10 rear. With better tyres I could have gone firmer, but this felt good. It would have been great to feel the difference between stock suspension and the Shockworks kit, but I'm fairly certain trying this with the stock suspension would have been a disaster. I found the oversteer to be very controllable (considering I've never driven RWD on track before), and the handling was predictable and composed for an 1800kg beast with crap tyres (Sport Maxx).

No mods other than the coilovers and a Herrod intake.

Fastest run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSzFrM7m5B4
Oversteer moments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lJe6Hj0FqQ

[dl86]

Good control there in the top video.

I remember those days of driving with the Dunlops LOL! That's hilarious.

I can just go flat stick into almost anything now and not worry about that happening with the Hankook RS3 285's on the back. I gotta be doing something REALLY stupid to loose it and even then the rear doesn't kick out anywhere near as much.

[flux]

Anyone recommend a place in Sydney to get my fg 335 gt fitted out with a set of shockworks coilovers?

[Shockworks]

Originally Posted by flux

Anyone recommend a place in Sydney to get my fg 335 gt fitted out with a set of shockworks coilovers?

We use Dave at Eastcoast suspension who does a great job with the install and alignments. You can call Dave on 02 95318966.

[flux]

Originally Posted by Shockworks

We use Dave at Eastcoast suspension who does a great job with the install and alignment. You can call Dave on 02 95318966.

Anyone in Nth or West Sydney? Unfortunately I'm about as far away as you can get from them and still be in Sydney and the gt is my daily...

[Grum]

Dave is worth the drive and the job is worth being done right.

[dl86]

Here is a video of me running 1m 13.0s at Wakefield Park. First time on a race track.

Second lap there is my quickest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShYr...jhQcxg9YTHO6dQ

I will probably go a fair bit quicker next time with -3 camber on the fronts as my outside edges are heavily worn from running only -0.5 camber. Turn in at speed was a big issue for me aka under steer as I just couldn't get enough rubber on the ground on the front due to the rubbish front camber. Also will have 376rwkw instead of 296rwkw under the belt with the new tune!

The Shockworks brake rotors were excellent by the way. ZERO fade from multiple brakes above 160kmh and 190kmh down the straights over 15 min sessions. The rotors still look fresh even with the aggressive Project Mu HC+ pads lol. I'll up the ante with some true race level pads next time to give them a real work out haha

[masda74]

Does anyone in Perth install them by any chance?

[graphicgoose]

They don't have a dealer/set shop in Perth Marco. They've previously used WA Suspension, but Brett shipped mine straight to Malaga suspensions to see how they go.

[Shockworks]

Originally Posted by masda74

Does anyone in Perth install them by any chance?

Hey masda,
We are using Malaga suspensions and Tom really knows his stuff with the Fords with a happy customer just getting back to me today with their good service and install.
Cheers
Brett