Tax the rich?

[cheap]

Small list of where out tax money goes, multiply this by the 50 to 15,000 public servants "required" for administration and compliance. Countless dubious processes and procedures. Add the making one look busy mentality and the culture of more people means more responsibility means more remuneration - we're instantly into multi-billion costs. Would there be any duplication with in these departments or the states? Would private industry be able to run some of these better?

Department of Agriculture
Australian Fisheries Management Authority
Australian Pesticides & Veterinary Medicines Authority
Cotton Research and Development Corporation
Fisheries Research and Development Corporation
Grains Research and Development Corporation
Grape and Wine Research and Development Corporation
Rural Industries Research and Development Corporation
Wine Australia Corporation
Attorney-General’s Department
Administrative Appeals Tribunal
Australia Business Arts Foundation Ltd
Australia Council
Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity
Australian Crime Commission
Australian Federal Police
Australian Film, Television and Radio School
Australian Financial Security Authority
Australian Government Solicitor
Australian Human Rights Commission
Australian Institute of Criminology
Australian Law Reform Commission
Australian National Maritime Museum
Australian Security Intelligence Organisation
Australian Transaction Reports and Analysis Centre
Bundanon Trust
CrimTrac Agency
Family Court and Federal Circuit Court
Federal Court of Australia
National Archives of Australia
National Film and Sound Archive of Australia
National Gallery of Australia
National Library of Australia
National Museum of Australia
National Portrait Gallery of Australia
Office of Parliamentary Counsel
Office of the Australian Information Commissioner
Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Old Parliament House
Screen Australia
Department of Communications
Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Australian Communications and Media Authority
Australian Postal Corporation
NBN Co Limited
Special Broadcasting Service Corporation
Telecommunications Universal Service Mgmt. Agency
Department of Defence
AAF Company
Army and Air Force Canteen Service
Australian Military Forces Relief Trust Fund
Australian Strategic Policy Institute Limited
Defence Housing Australia
Defence Materiel Organisation
RAAF Welfare Recreational Company
RAAF Veterans’ Residences Trust Fund
RAAF Welfare Trust Fund
Royal Australian Navy Central Canteens BoardRoyal Australian Navy Relief Trust Fund
Department of Education
Aust Curriculum, Assessment and Reporting Authorit
Aust. Inst. for Teaching and School Leadership Limited
Aust. Inst. of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies
Australian National University
Australian Research Council
Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency
Department of Employment
Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency
Coal Mining Industry (Long Service Leave Funding) Corp
Comcare
Fair Work Commission
Office of the Fair Work Building Industry Inspectorate
Office of the Fair Work Ombudsman
Safe Work Australia
Seafarers Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation Authority
Workplace Gender Equality Agency
Department of Environment
Bureau of Meteorology
Clean Energy Regulator
Climate Change Authority
Director of National Parks
Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority
Low Carbon Australia Limited
Murray-Darling Basin Authority
National Water Commission
NEPC Service Corporation
Sydney Harbour Federation Trust
Department of Finance
Albury-Wodonga Development Corporation
ASC Pty Ltd
Australian Electoral Commission
Australian River Co. Limited
Commonwealth Superannuation Corporation
ComSuper
Future Fund Management Agency
Medibank Private Limited
Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
Australian Centre for International Agricultural Research
Australian Secret Intelligence Service
Australian Trade Commission (Austrade)
Export Finance and Insurance Corporation
Tourism Australia
Department of Health
Australian Comm. on Safety & Quality in Health Care
Australian Institute of Health and Welfare
Australian National Preventive Health Agency
Australian Radiation Protection & Nuclear Safety Agency
Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority
Australian Sports Commission
Australian Sports Foundation Limited
Cancer Australia
Food Standards Australia New Zealand
General Practice Education and Training Limited
Health Workforce Australia
Independent Hospital Pricing Authority
National Blood Authority
National Health and Medical Research Council
National Health Funding Body
National Health Performance Authorit
National Mental Health Commission
Organ and Tissue Authority
Private Health Insurance Administration Council
Private Health Insurance Ombudsman
Professional Services Review Scheme
Department of Human Services
Australian Hearing Services
Department of Immigration and Border Protection
Australian Customs & Border Protection Service
Migration Review Tribunal & Refugee Review Tribunal
Department of Industry
Australian Institute of Marine Science
Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation
Australian Renewable Energy Agency
Australian Skills Quality Authority
Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial Research Org.
Geoscience Australia
IIF Investments Pty Limited
IP Australia
National Offshore Petroleum Safety and Environment Management Authority
Department of Infrastructure & Regional Development
Airservices Australia
Australian Maritime Safety Authority
Australian Rail Track Corporation Limited
Australian Transport Safety Bureau
Civil Aviation Safety Authority
Moorebank Intermodal Company Limited
National Capital Authority
National Transport Commission
Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet
Aboriginal Hostels Limited
Anindilyakwa Land Council
Australian National Audit Office
Australian Public Service Commission
Central Land Council
Indigenous Business Australia
Indigenous Land Corporation
National Australia Day Council Limited
Northern Land Council
Office of National Assessments
Office of the Commonwealth Ombudsman
Office of the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security
Office of the Official Secretary to the Governor-General
Outback Stores Pty Ltd
Tiwi Land Council
Torres Strait Regional Authority
Wreck Bay Aboriginal Community Council
Department of Social Services
Australian Institute of Family Studies
Australian Aged Care Quality Agency
National Disability Insurance Agency
Department of the Treasury
Australian Bureau of Statistics
Australian Competition and Consumer Commission
Australian Office of Financial Management
Australian Prudential Regulation Authority
Australian Reinsurance Pool Corporation
Australian Securities and Investments Commission
Australian Taxation Office
Clean Energy Finance Corporation
Commonwealth Grants Commission
Corporations and Markets Advisory Committee
Inspector-General of Taxation
National Competition Council
Office of the Auditing and Assurance Standards Board
Office of the Australian Accounting Standards Board
Productivity Commission
Reserve Bank of Australia
Royal Australian Mint
Department of Veterans’ Affairs
Australian War Memorial
Department of Parliamentary Services
Department of the House of Representatives
Department of the Senate...

And so on!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by cheap

It was so "good" that people risked barbed wire, attack dogs, bullets and life long Siberian imprisionment wanting to leave rather than stay. Can't really say I've heard of to many people before the collapse of the Soviet Union actually banging on the gates wanting to be let in so as to participate in that "good" place. Do you suposse North Korea is a great place too?

The two I've spoken to said they would rather the days of the USSR before it turned into the Russsian Federation, also:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/19/wo...anted=all&_r=0

“At that time in Russia, behind the Iron Curtain, we had only heard of democracy,” said Mr. Veretelny, 54, who was at the time supporting himself as a driver. “We really believed the magical, beautiful word democracy. But a lot of things turned out not exactly the way we expected. We began to ask ourselves what we spilled our blood for.”

“I felt more comfortable in the U.S.S.R.,” she said. “You always had a piece of bread. You always had work. Yes, sure, you can go overseas now, but you have to have money for that and you have to go into debt. Now, if you don’t have money you can’t do anything.”

The problem is everything sounds awesome in theory but when it actually happens whether or not it turns to **** is a different story and the actual outcome is different than what you first thought.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by russellw

It always seems such a simple answer. Tax the rich - although I'm not quite sure what is defined as rich these days and it has probably never been the answer anyway.

There are some good suggestions in this thread, some really bad suggestions and some that have me wondering what we've become as a society.

So here's my 10 cents worth.



Let me start by saying that in my view, if the Government uses the additional impost to reduce debt and doesn't use it as an excuse to continue pork barrelling themselves into larger deficits then I have no issue with paying it. This, despite the fact that I've not been a recipient of one single cent of the Government 'initiatives' that created the debt in the first place.

What I do have a problem with is some of the benefits attached to those initiatives that we now consider to be 'rights' in order to support a higher standard of living than previous generations enjoyed.

Without wishing to single out any particular group in society let's start with a simple one that is easy to provide comparisons for - the Baby bonus and associated parenting benefits.

Neither I, nor my parents received anything for having children apart from the rather token couple of dollars a week the Government handed out in Child Allowance (under various guises) but we also didn't have to worry about child care costs because we accepted that having children meant making sacrifices and surviving on one or one and some part time work incomes.

Now, before the bleating about not being able to survive on one income these days crops up let me say this: the average household running cost today as a percentage of income is actually better than it was in the 1950's (my parents time) or 1970's (mine) by a small but measurable amount. Even mortgage servicing costs still make up around the same 20-22% of household income they have over most of the last 50 years. Admittedly they did get lower (to about 17%) during the 1980's but that was against historical trends.

Anyway, back to the point.

Having children and supporting them on a single income does mean making sacrifices. Smaller house (or a worse area); maybe one instead of two cars or two older cars; simple holidays; not much in the way of entertainment that you don't make yourself and others too numerous to mention but having children is a choice that each couple make and there should be no expectation that the Government will be there with handouts and subsidies just so that parents can attempt to maintain a lifestyle. I really struggle to see how we got so far off the fundamental that people are responsible for their own support and welfare was simply a safety net against catastrophe such as illness, disability and genuine unemployment. That some of these benefits aren't even means tested is even worse.

You may ask, why should I care and in many ways I don't. My days of having children are well behind me but when these so called government initiatives keep moving my age of retirement from the 50 it originally was; through the 55 it then was; to the 60 it currently is and (no doubt) the 65 it is going to be before I get to 60 then I am understandably more than a little miffed about the situation. I've worked hard since I was 15 to fund an early retirement only to watch it disappear under the weight of public debt; unfunded retirees and government funded social benefits.

Indeed, I'm currently of the view that I won't be living out my retired years in this country at all as I can only see increased pressure coming from our Government on the pre-1960's generation and more onerous requirements for retirement.


Cheers
Russ

well said Russell. This is the mentality a lot have come to adopt nowadays, and they see nothing wrong with it. They want their cake and eat it too.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by blueoval

well said Russell. This is the mentality a lot have come to adopt nowadays, and they see nothing wrong with it. They want their cake and eat it too.

Slight correction, They've been told and now expect endless supply of 1st class cake and they can feast forever!

[mechanic]

Cheaps " Small list of where out tax money goes," I didn't quote as there's only so much space.

Very interesting, if that's the small list the full list must be truly awful.
Is that just Federal?
This is just so "Yes Minister", particularly the episode with the new hospital, no patients but 500 admin. staff.
Big difference is I don't find this list funny at all.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by mechanic

Cheaps " Small list of where out tax money goes," I didn't quote as there's only so much space.

Very interesting, if that's the small list the full list must be truly awful.
Is that just Federal?
This is just so "Yes Minister", particularly the episode with the new hospital, no patients but 500 admin. staff.
Big difference is I don't find this list funny at all.

Just the Feds, you need to multiply a lot of this by 6 states and 2 territories.

It is heart breaking and gut wrenching to think we have so much NANNISM running this great country. Is it any wonder we're broke and going backwards?

[mechanic]

After reading cheaps post I Googled Federal govt. departments.
Disturbingly I got to 303, but that was just those under " A " in the alphabet.
Have I not counted correctly, surely there can't be that many?

[Franco Cozzo]

Don't privatise any service providing organisation OR regulator because as we know in Victoria it just becomes about making money for the share holder rather than providing a service to the people.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Hey I'm religious and I go to church. I pay the same income taxes everyone else does. Are you suggesting the church entity should have to pay tax in addition to all its members paying income tax, sales taxes, and every other kind of applicable tax?

I work at an employer who employs other people as well.
We all pay tax on various forms.
Should my employer pay tax? Simple answer is yes.
Churches/religious organisations make money. And a lot of it. They're basically a business, without the downfall of paying tax on profits.

[GT0132]

Arguably a large slice of the deficit created by labour was caused by the generous stimulus handouts given to certain individuals that met a certain criteria.

Rather than impose a debt tax, why not firstly ask those individuals to repay the lump sums they were given?

Then once that has all been paid back , we can assess the state of the deficit and the need for further taxes.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by mcnews

What planet do you live on?

One where I have had to earn every dollar, fell out of work on good pay due to the "recession we had to have" and picked up a job flipping burgers at night and cleaning buildings in the early morning both jobs at a lower pay than I was used to. It is called taking and making opportunities and not sitting on my a#%# hoping for the dole and waiting for the "right" job.

Originally Posted by mcnews

Is it not right and proper that those of us who do well pay our share to help out those less fortunate?.

I don't mind helping those who need it not those who just expect to sit on the dole for a year or more.

Originally Posted by mcnews

It really pees me off to see how mean spirited this country is becoming. And the more easy people are doing it the more mean spirited they get it seems.

Nothing about being mean at all, a lot of people believe they deserve to be on the dole. I know of at least 8 families where they are all totally ripping off the welfare system sitting on the dole and doing cashies, Centrelink are never able to catch them. Everyone from the 50 year old grandparents to the 13 year old daughter who is a single mum with her second on the way and can't tell who eithers dad is and are proud of their "rightful" lifestyle as they put it. They are just bludgers and their are many out there the same.

What about the uni grad or person who has finished their degree or highschool who will sit on the dole and say "That isn't the job I like or studied for" when they get offered a job that is "beneath" them such as flipping a burger, working cleaning buildings etc, prefer being on the dole than taking any job and showing initiative as it is always easier to get a job when you are in one than when you sit on your a@$# all day for a year or more.

Originally Posted by mcnews

I had a friend recently, a good hard working woman in the country, she got sick through no fault of her own, she was flown from Broken Hill to Adelaide for treatment etc. without no real out of pocket costs. .

That is why we pay high taxes already and are one of the highest taxed nations in the OECD and why we have Medicare to ensure people like your friend recieve appropriate medica assistance.

Originally Posted by mcnews

I put up a friend of mine who has come down with crippling arthritis due to some weird infection that all manner of drugs has failed to treat, he lived in a caravan with his dogs at the top of my hill largely shooting rabbit and deer to feed him and his two dogs. He had no welfare at all, I basically forced him after two years of getting no benefits to get advice on how to wind up his business so he can get accss to disability etc. He now finally is on disability and getting some support.

That is what most mates would do but most would have got him some support from Centrelink or one of the many other agencies a lot earlier than two years down the track to easse his burden.

Originally Posted by mcnews

When I get my tax bill (which is normally a fairly hefty five figures) I don't carry on like a poor downtrodden demented ranter oh woe is me my life is so hard and I have to pay so much just to support everyone else else etc. etc. dribble, cough. I see it as fair and proper. Wake up and smell the roses you one dimensional whingers.

I get a 5 figure tax bill too, but I am sick of hearing how there is so many people out of work, yet many will not take any job offer as it is beneath them or the welfare milkers like the single mum with 4 kids to 4 different fathers before she is 20 or the druggie with the meth lab in government sponsored housing living on the dole making a 220K income off meth every year.

Help those that genuinely need it but no one personneeds to be out of work more than two years if they are physically capable of working.

90% of people over the last 5 years I have interviewed for technical and non technical roles have, turned up and admitted they needed a sign off for their dole form, some needed a shower and to wear non ripped clothes, were under the influence of alcohol, drugs or both. Now if they turn up like that, I just inform Centelink of their appearance, behaviour or state of inebriation.

Mcnews, If I am a one dimensional whinger as you state, you obvioulsy live in a world of unlimited money or one without welfare cheats and believe those who work hardest need to pay for those that don't want to work, which is different to helping those that genuinely need help.

[mcnews]

If you know of people rorting the system pick up the phone and dob them in, that is all it takes.

I have also done my fair share of hard work and don't like bludgers but do not tar everyone with the same brush.

The average wage earner with a couple of kids pays NO TAX effectively once the benefits they get back from goverment are tallied up, this is fact, and it is an absolute crock. Cut all the middle class welfare out for wage earners before looking to hang crap on those that are genuinely doing it tough and need a hand.

[xxx000]

Don't believe all that negativity the shock jocks like Jones and Hadley spruik

They get, and keep, listeners because they have a disgusting style of attacking others while at the same time hating anyone at all negative towards them.

Here's my 2c:
1. Make churches pay tax/rates etc etc at proper rates
2. No negative gearing of rental properties
3. No tax break for novated leasing of vehicles
4. Mining companies to be levied for what they take out of the ground
5. Packer and his ilk to pay decent amounts of tax.

[BENT_8]

So after 5 pages the idea is to close Centrelink and condemn the religious institutions that support the needy.
Why not, Centrelink are incompetent fools who only hand out tax payers money to welfare cheats and single mothers with multiple dependants.
And I don't need a soup kitchen.

Quick, someone give Tony and Joe a call and inform them that all is well, Australian Ford Forums has the answer.

Has anyone bothered to ask why its so easy to get a DSP or Carers pension these days.
Has anyone wondered why the Baby Bonus was introduced.

I'll give you a hint, the ease at which you can become disabled or a carer of the disabled allows the powers that be to hide the true state of our unemployment situation.
If everyone who wasn't entitled to a DSP or carer pension went onto Newstart our unemployment figures would rise considerably.

So don't give them Newstart you say, easy.
No, there are something like 800,000 people seeking work in Australia at present, there are only 600,000 positions to fill and that's before the entire auto manufacturing industry closes and takes with it 10's of thousands of jobs.

We already have a shortfall without all those DSP and Carer cheats joining the queue.

Now lets look at the baby Bonus, why would a Government pay people to reproduce.
Could it be because our population is ageing and an influx was needed to square up the ledger.
Could it be to help support the housing market when the negative gearing baby boomers decide to sell.

In the very near future this country will need a lot of people to wipe a lot of ***** in nursing homes.
It will also need someone to buy that self funded retirement portfolio.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by mcnews

The average wage earner with a couple of kids pays NO TAX effectively once the benefits they get back from goverment are tallied up, this is fact, and it is an absolute crock.

Backup this 'fact' with figures please.

I'd like to see how I effectively paid no tax for 10years despite the fact the ATO wanted >$400pw

[mcnews]

It's been put in figures so many times it is not funny. By the time all the benefits are added up in regards to your kids education, health care and all the other tax breaks families get you have to earn really big money before you actually end up paying more than you get back in direct benefits. The Weekend Australian or The Saturday Age did the figures again on the weekend, can't remember which one but it has been proved so many times. You might pay tax, even a fair whack of tax, but if you have a family you still get more from government than you pay.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So after 5 pages the idea is to close Centrelink and condemn the religious institutions that support the needy.
Why not, Centrelink are incompetent fools who only hand out tax payers money to welfare cheats and single mothers with multiple dependants.
And I don't need a soup kitchen.

Quick, someone give Tony and Joe a call and inform them that all is well, Australian Ford Forums has the answer.

Has anyone bothered to ask why its so easy to get a DSP or Carers pension these days.
Has anyone wondered why the Baby Bonus was introduced.

I'll give you a hint, the ease at which you can become disabled or a carer of the disabled allows the powers that be to hide the true state of our unemployment situation.
If everyone who wasn't entitled to a DSP or carer pension went onto Newstart our unemployment figures would rise considerably.

So don't give them Newstart you say, easy.
No, there are something like 800,000 people seeking work in Australia at present, there are only 600,000 positions to fill and that's before the entire auto manufacturing industry closes and takes with it 10's of thousands of jobs.

We already have a shortfall without all those DSP and Carer cheats joining the queue.

Now lets look at the baby Bonus, why would a Government pay people to reproduce.
Could it be because our population is ageing and an influx was needed to square up the ledger.
Could it be to help support the housing market when the negative gearing baby boomers decide to sell.

In the very near future this country will need a lot of people to wipe a lot of ***** in nursing homes.
It will also need someone to buy that self funded retirement portfolio.

Whilst I agree with most of what you've written I'm waiting for 'cheap' or someone else to provide evidence the Catholic Church and/or other of the major churches provides significant support for the needy/homeless/hungry

If they paid rates and tax all that money could potentially go to the needy, it doesn't flow from them now as far as I'm aware.
And by significant I'm talking tens of millions of $ each year, not collecting tins of food from parishioners to pass on.

[xxx000]

Here's a link to the Australian article referred to by mcnews

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opin...-1226905083567

JOE Hockey says that all Australians, especially those with the capacity to pay, must do the heavy lifting to restore the budget bottom line. In reality, as the latest tax office data reported on Saturday’s front page revealed, a fraction of taxpayers are already doing the heavy lifting.

As Natasha Bita wrote, the median Australian household gains $114 a week more in welfare and services than it pays in taxes. After paying $348 in taxes a week, such families claw back $103 in welfare payments and $359 worth of free or subsidised healthcare, education and childcare. The poorest taxpayers pay $106 a week in taxes, including GST, but receive $890 in welfare payments and services.

Only a small section of Australians pay more in taxes than they pocket in government benefits over a lifetime. And these are the people who will bear the brunt of the Abbott government’s “temporary’’ debt tax or levy expected in next week’s budget. Early leaks suggested it was likely to be imposed on taxpayers earning $80,000 a year or more. This group, comprising 16 per cent of taxpayers, already contributes 63 per cent of net tax. After a public and internal party backlash, it is likely the biggest burden will fall on those earning $180,000 or more, who already contribute 25 per cent of net tax, and are tipped to pay an extra 2 per cent, bringing their marginal rate, including the Medicare levy, to 48.5 per cent.

Targeting wealthy Australians with homes worth millions of dollars and investments who claim a part pension with associated benefits is legitimate. The concept of retiring as soon as possible to access superannuation, live it up for a few years then claim a pension, which has been a popular strategy among the older baby boomers, should also be reviewed with an eye to saving taxpayers’ money.

But burdening workers earning more than $180,000 with an effective tax rate of almost 50c in the dollar is a blunt instrument. Leaving the top earners to take home little more than those considerably down the career ladder, earning tens of thousands of dollars a year less, is a dampener against incentive. It is also likely to produce unintended consequences, prompting more people to restructure their affairs to reduce their tax bill.

The nub of the deficit problem is successive governments on both sides, driven by political considerations, have offered fistsful of dollars to construct and expand a complex
tax-welfare edifice. As well as adding to the nation’s administrative overheads, the system has turned many Australians, inadvertently, into what Robert Menzies once described as leaners rather than lifters.

Such counterproductive bureaucratic churn would have been unimaginable 50 years ago. And it runs contrary to the self-reliance and independence that are fundamental to the Australian character. Given the choice, most families and individuals would prefer to have more of their earnings left in their pockets. A simpler, flatter tax and welfare system with lower marginal tax rates and benefits reserved only for those in real need would create greater incentive for hard work and free up families to decide how to spend and save their own money.

Some commentators view the debt levy as a political ploy to justify essential reforms such as Medicare co-payments, which are likely to affect the poor. There is no justification, however, for forcing taxpayers earning $80,000 or more, which includes many teachers, nurses and police, to shoulder an even greater burden. As Institute of Public Affairs executive director John Roskam said on Sky News’ Australian Agenda yesterday, a 1 per cent cut in federal spending of more than $400 billion this year could save the budget as much as the deficit tax would be likely to raise.

In its mid-year economic and fiscal outlook, the Abbott government conceded the commonwealth’s fiscal position was “unsustainable’’ and committed itself to “the hard decisions to live within its means’’. For the good of the economy, its focus should be pruning spending and streamlining federalism. Federal-state bureaucratic overkill in health, education, environmental management and other areas must be eliminated. The problematic “direct action’’ response to climate change should also be pruned heavily or chopped.

And, whatever the outcry from the welfare lobby, Tony Abbott cannot avoid cutting deep into welfare and securing better value in education and health. As a start, the Prime Minister has prepared families to lose access to benefits at a new income threshold of $100,000. As he said last week, the best way to help such families is long-term tax relief and more business and job opportunities, not handouts.

After Labor’s wasted years, his government must not fail to turn the budget in the right direction.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by xxx000

Don't believe all that negativity the shock jocks like Jones and Hadley spruik

They get, and keep, listeners because they have a disgusting style of attacking others while at the same time hating anyone at all negative towards them.

Here's my 2c:
1. Make churches pay tax/rates etc etc at proper rates
2. No negative gearing of rental properties
3. No tax break for novated leasing of vehicles
4. Mining companies to be levied for what they take out of the ground
5. Packer and his ilk to pay decent amounts of tax.

So no changes to a bloated and institutalised welfare state mentality or the bloated public service? I can see a fair few problems with your 2 cent solution.

Again, what the big deal with church's? Exactly how much revenue is going to be generated by taxing a church? Why isn't there an equal focus on other "not for profit" entities such as Get-up and Greenpeace or any other swag of socialist minded institutions?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by xxx000

Whilst I agree with most of what you've written I'm waiting for 'cheap' or someone else to provide evidence the Catholic Church and/or other of the major churches provides significant support for the needy/homeless/hungry

If they paid rates and tax all that money could potentially go to the needy, it doesn't flow from them now as far as I'm aware.
And by significant I'm talking tens of millions of $ each year, not collecting tins of food from parishioners to pass on.

If they paid tax on all that money it may end up funding a politicians pension too.
At least if they are distributing it themselves it is to those who are in a bad enough way to need their help.

[xxx000]

so clearly you've got no evidence

what's the big deal with churches you ask.........they pay no tax and why should they get away with that?

and how much revenue you ask...............tens of millions perhaps even billions I'd suggest

why not an equal focus you ask.........churches have been around for the longest and claim to help the poor and needy. In fact many people would assume that's a key role of theirs and in line with their 'caring' nature they exude.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

If they paid tax on all that money it may end up funding a politicians pension too.
At least if they are distributing it themselves it is to those who are in a bad enough way to need their help.

I believe they aren't even doing that but happy to be proven wrong.

To me they are like Packer, happy to collect more $ and retain it for no purpose other than greed. Getting richer and richer.

If they (churches) were genuine they'd get by with the minimum and use the rest for good helping everyone else. Instead they are some of the grandest and wealthiest groups and landholders around

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Pub247

I was discussing this with my mum the other day. My sister has severe mental disabilities. She is 18 basically dependant on my mum to do most things for her my sister cannot talk read or write properly is basically a 3 year in an adult body. My mother is only able to work part time due having to care for my sister

She's entitled to 360 odd a fortnight disability pension and my mum is not entitled to a carers pension (at this point in time).

Yet when she turns 21 she entitled to over 720 a fortnight what the difference between being 18 and 21 when you're basically a 3 year old?

Why is it that someone with an extreme disability who is dependant on another to look after her receive less money compared to someone who for instance may have a bad back from not looking after themselves?

The disability pension is rife with rorters and over paid people the system needs a complete overhaul and people should be means tested.

my 31 yo daughter has chronic rheumatoid arthritis and has had since she was 7, she gets **** all for a disability allowance, certainly only a fraction of what others get, she cannot work full time, she struggles to move in Winter, she is very angry with the system

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by xxx000

To me they are like Packer, happy to collect more $ and retain it for no purpose other than greed. Getting richer and richer.

Surely once you reach such a figure where you know none of you or your extended family will ever need to work again you wouldn't care about making money.

Once you went into the hundreds of millions wouldn't you just stop caring, who cares after that you're well and truely done, its like when you get to the end of a video game and you've done everything, theres nothing more left to do.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

my 31 yo daughter has chronic rheumatoid arthritis and has had since she was 7, she gets **** all for a disability allowance, certainly only a fraction of what others get, she cannot work full time, she struggles to move in Winter, she is very angry with the system

Maybe she can get some help to get what she should be getting. I believe the full disability pension is worth twice as much as Newstart etc. and more than the aged pension etc. But I presume she is not classified as to getting the full benefit? Maybe the doctors can at least give her that approval for winter at least.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by xxx000

so clearly you've got no evidence

what's the big deal with churches you ask.........they pay no tax and why should they get away with that?

and how much revenue you ask...............tens of millions perhaps even billions I'd suggest

why not an equal focus you ask.........churches have been around for the longest and claim to help the poor and needy. In fact many people would assume that's a key role of theirs and in line with their 'caring' nature they exude.

You do realise that revenue is not the same as profit?

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

my 31 yo daughter has chronic rheumatoid arthritis and has had since she was 7, she gets **** all for a disability allowance, certainly only a fraction of what others get, she cannot work full time, she struggles to move in Winter, she is very angry with the system

That's terrible. I have RA but its not chronic. I have some deformation in the joints but not to the point where it's forceably harbouring the way I live my life. I hope your daughter gets all the help she needs Trev.

[MITCHAY]

If you fill the bucket with more water but don't plug up the holes what changes apart from it takes longer to drain?

Welfare should only cover basic needs and ideally short term so before we decide we need more money to pay for bills now we need to look at where it is being spent.

Because you don't have to look far to see some people taking the ****.

[comagutsa]

Originally Posted by mcnews

As someone that grew up and lived most of my life in WA... And for the previous 100 years to that WA was a net benefactor that got back lots more than they put in so suck it up princess.

haha come on trev the GST hasnt been around for 100 years
so in a nut shell we raise 30% of all GST in the country and we get back 4.2% ..yeah that sounds fair


Western Australia's share of the GST pie has been slashed to a record low.
The Commonwealth Grants Commission has allocated 4.2 per cent of GST revenue to the state.
It says WA's share has decreased because its capacity to raise money has risen to a record high, driven directly by mining and indirectly by state taxes.
New South Wales again received the biggest share of GST revenue, reaping more than 31 per cent of the pool.
Victoria received 22 per cent, Queensland received just under 22 per cent and South Australia has been granted 9.2 per cent.
The Northern Territory stands to get just under 6 per cent, Tasmania will get 3.6 per cent and the ACT is set to get 2.1 per cent.
WA Treasurer Mike Nahan says he is disappointed with the decision.
He says the reduction was expected, but with forecasts predicting the state's GST share will fall to just 10 cents in the dollar in coming years, he is worried about the state's economic future.
"That's going to lead to potentially fracturing of the federation," he said.
"When a major state that accounts for 30 per cent of capital investment, and 40 to 60 per cent of exports get essentially no share of one of the nation's largest taxes, that's supposed to help the states, is just a game changer."

[mcnews]

And when the holes in the ground are empty and half of WA defaults on their house/boat loans then the situation will reverse :-)
Personally, the states are all an absolute crock and a complete waste of time. All this state gets this that state gets that is all a load of crap. It's one country for pity sake.