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09-10-2007, 02:09 AM | #121 | |||
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In regards to speed doesn't kill, that is technically right. What most of you are forgetting is that in order for you to hit something at speed there must be some sort of other error that comes into play. Whether it is driver error, poor road surface or the like it is not speed but rather error/other issue that will kill. Speed is just a contributing factor in some cases and is by no means the leading reason in any accident IMO. That is unless someone tries to do something like take a sharp bend at a stupid rate of knots.
Also remember that for an accident deemed to be the fault of excessive speed that doesn't always mean that the vehicle was travelling over the speed limit.
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09-10-2007, 03:12 AM | #122 | |||
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Have a shot at it , it may help you if you're "country driving" at some stage . Norm
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09-10-2007, 05:43 AM | #123 | |||
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09-10-2007, 08:03 AM | #124 | |||
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EDIt just read OBJ second post if they dont do much damage that pretty much rules camels - Reason I said Camels is that I had a brother that drove from Melb to Perth and he was warned several times from truck drivers about camels in the area and he saw a few on the way over.
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09-10-2007, 08:24 AM | #125 | |||
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09-10-2007, 10:50 AM | #126 | |||
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09-10-2007, 10:54 AM | #127 | ||
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[QUOTE=RedXR347]In regards to speed doesn't kill, Speed is just a contributing factor in some cases and is by no means the leading reason in any accident IMO.
another bloke defending speeding with a stupid statement. poison doesnt kill you either mate . it's the hand that puts it in your mouth. what a goose. |
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09-10-2007, 11:28 AM | #128 | ||||
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on the other hand you could say that if there is a fatality, speed possibly IS the leading cause of the fatality, even if it wasn't the leading cause of the accident - hence the reason why its generally best not to speed... yes we're being nit-picky on details to some extent, but that ain't a crime. As a theoretical discussion can you see both sides' reasoning? You're not going to bring anyone around to your point of view by insulting them either... |
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09-10-2007, 11:36 AM | #129 | ||
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This subject is always emotive and often not logical. Attempting to convince your protagonist with logic or evidence is about as effective as argueing with a Jehova's Witness.
The crux of the matter is the definition of speeding. If your definition of speeding is any time your vehicle is exceeding a posted limit and that is dangerous to the point of lethal then you are not logical in your thinking. Real world situations. Open multi lane highway, no other traffic, limit 100, perfect weather, you are doing 120 in a new Falcon. Open highway, some traffic, limit 100, fog, your are doin 98 in a new Falcon. School zone, 3:10pm kids rushing about, limit 40, pouring rain, you are doing 37. Open Highway, no traffic, 2am, limit 40(normally 110 because they are mowing the sides of the road during the day and are too lazy to remove the signs at night and you drove over the same road 10min before and it is clear), perfect weather, doing 90 in a new focus. Open highway, lots of traffic, limit 100, pouring rain, you are doing 100 in a EA with 90% worn super el-cheapo razor blade chinese tyres. Which ones of these is illegal? Which are extremely dangerous? There is an enormous problem brewing in society where people are not able to make judgents or decissions because they have never had practice. We have kids picked up and dropped off at school for 12 years, not allowed out of the yard in case of strangers, basicly instructed and controlled every minute of their lives and conditioine to DO AS YOU ARE TOLD and THEN let loose with a drivers licence. A situation occurs and they look around for someone to tell them what to do but no one is there. They make bad choices because they have had no practice at choosing and are not good at it yet. This is not confine to the young, there are plenty of 30 and 40 year olds who cannot function without concice and extended instructions. Of course we are still human and therefore always right and everyone else is wrong, that is our nature. My definition: Speeding is travelling faster than is safe in any given situation regardless of any posted limit. |
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09-10-2007, 06:25 PM | #130 | ||
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That is absolutely spot on Flappist
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09-10-2007, 06:43 PM | #131 | |||
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I love you flappist, thank you for making sense. Ive been waiting ages for you to make a post in theis thread.
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10-10-2007, 12:24 AM | #132 | |||
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10-10-2007, 01:05 AM | #133 | ||||
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[QUOTE=gtfpv]
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I don't think you can really compare the two.
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10-10-2007, 03:00 AM | #134 | |||
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I'm a "Bushie" , and I was wrong , when I found out what the answer is , it Really does make sense . OBJ came up with a Question that "Sounds" very complex , but the answer is surprisingly "Simple" , but very correct and happens in any part of the country . Good try ! Prof_Rabbit , I was thinking the same , Wombat or Rabbit , a clue to the answer is "Anywhere in the country" Norm
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Last edited by normxb; 10-10-2007 at 03:05 AM. |
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10-10-2007, 03:16 AM | #135 | ||
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OBJ, Sorry for Hi-Jacking your "Q" , but I think your question is "On Topic" because it has contributed to accidents "Many Times".
Norm
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10-10-2007, 11:05 AM | #136 | |||
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I've quoted this post made to the 'aus.cars' newgroup, it concerns manner-of-driving observations under a current speed-limited environment in Queensland, and my quick response.
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Its called 'speed-limit conditioning', it results in the behavioural observations made. One answer, for *some* rural high-standard roads (lengths of) is to use instead speed derestriction. No absolute maximum, but manner and personal speed onus is then much greater, one cannot use 'the state' (posted speed limits) as a defence for otherwise too fast or dangerous driving under this allowance. Another is to reduce the current rural default (100km/h) to 80km/h, remove the existing speed zoning signs. Here, use of a new sign called an 'END Speed-limit sign' would then be made. In Australian Standard 1742,4 of 1999 its catalogued as an R4-12. It contains the word 'end' with a number in a circle underneath it representing the ceasing previous limit. Unlike the speed derestriction sign, this one falls back to the prevailing rural default AND its use signals to a road user the road ahead has identified quality and safety issues; such as soft edges, poor camber, rail crossings, hidden intersections etc.
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10-10-2007, 11:16 AM | #137 | ||
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ON THE m4 motorway in nsw. I travel to work daily. it has 3 speed limits along it's stretch. it also has in some areas electronic variable speed signs . i think ultimately . when technology allowes . these would be good everywhere . but think of the technology involved . at the moment on the m4 . these are rarely used by whoever controls them , and people dont take the signs seriously.
i wonder if the ever will go to SATVAV . AUTOMATED SPEED CONTROL. i guess the list goes on and on . and human error will have it's hand in everything . THEREFORE . obviously speed signs have to be generalised at a maximum in good weather etc etc . |
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10-10-2007, 02:08 PM | #138 | ||
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^^ (last 2 posts)
Likewise I find the F3 electronic speed signs good because they can bring the "limit" down to a sensible one for the conditions. (However sometimes I suspect those electronic signs, like on the Sydney orbital, are used set artificially low in good conditions to trap drivers into "speeding" offences.) |
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10-10-2007, 09:48 PM | #139 | ||
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WTF? How can you be trapped? If the lower limit is being enforced then directly in front of the camera the overhead signs are illuminated to 90 and 8 orange lights flash! Look to your left near the advisory signs next time heading north and you'll see various sensors measuring rainfall to calculate enforcement of the 10kmh speed variance.
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11-10-2007, 12:16 PM | #140 | |||
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11-10-2007, 12:33 PM | #141 | |||
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Or alternatively the gallahs behind the wheel
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11-10-2007, 02:20 PM | #142 | |||
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12-10-2007, 10:23 AM | #143 | |||
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