Best Engine Offered In Australian Car?

[GTP290]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

certain victory...
How much time did Moffat loose when he spun off the track and crashed in the wet while leading????

In 72 he did crash, but the HO was suffering brake problems which put him out of contention in the early stages of the race.
Funnily enough the car that did finish 2nd was a HO, the name of the driver slips my mind now, but they made the wise move to take out the locker rear and and just run a standard lsd setup which made the car easier to drive in the wet conditions, pity none of the other half dozen or so HOs out there didnt think of the same thing, maybe it could of been a better result for Ford.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by mcnews

My opinion on the ecotec is based overall on the NVH of the engine. I know they hang together reasonably well but every time I stick the boot into one I wait for conrods to come out of the side such is the diabolical din that offends my aural senses. It is so bad that it offends my mechanical sensibilities to actually rev them. But others seem to love them so perhaps its mechanical pitch just grates on my senses more than others but I found them truly ghastly. And it is not a Ford v Holden thing for me, I am simply not that one eyed.

Have to agree with this completely to be honest. While the ecotec had some strong points (pretty damn reliable, pulled better down low than early alloytecs imo) and was hobled by a woeful auto for its career in the Holden engine bay, i still think it is far from an EF I6 let alone the later Barra donks it competed with. Sure the EA 3.9 was less reliable, but even the EB-ED donks were better in most areas than an ecotec IMO. Its main problem was that it was a donk with woeful NVH - i've been in commodores that i was afraid would explode when they kicked down to second at 60!!! Thrashy motor that makes quite a din. It also wasn't all that powerful when you consider its 3.8 capacity and 147kw, 302 nm outputs. Lucky the cars it were in were lighter than the falcon.

As for the best engine, well as has been mentioned you can take this question a number of different ways. I think for out and out numbers and performance, the I6T is gotta be king. Whether BA to FG it is such a useable powerhouse of an engine with pretty good NVH/fuel burn too for a cheaply developed low-volume local engine.

But overall, the EF-FG 4.0L I6 is my vote. Cheap to buy, maintain and surprisingly efficient, it is a torquey driveable motor with very good NVH (in later forms) and great reliability. Sure it has its issues like any motor, but they are easilly recognised and prevented in most cases, and the newer versions have less and less of these design flaws. After so many years this old dog still has the goods.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Fair enough, I was just shocked into action at the thought as I rate as one of the most horrible engines in history so that you thought it was one of the best floored me.

In terms of price, fuel consumption, availability and boogey. The Ecotec probably would be up there. You can get conversion kits for just about every RWD car ever sold in Aus (Leyland, Hilux, Corona, Bedford etc) they are a dime a dozen and provide a good overall package. Feels funny calling them "a performance engine" but its the jack of many trades master of none in my opinion.

[4Vman]

Guys, despite our brand loyalty's i think we've all over looked probably the best of the lot, it kills me to say it but the holden 308 would be as good as any, and probably (just) pips the cleveland based on race success, sales success, reliability and easy of upgrade, it was even honorable in injected form as the 304.... The only thing it can't win on is outright grunt which goes to the clevo.
Id rate the 308 just ahead or on par with the cleveland followed by the Ford I6, then Holden 202... That's my top 4 based on the original question.
Honerable mention to the 327/350 chev and 289/302W, and ok, 265, just to keep mcnews happy!.

The current I6 is a relative youngster to the others, but is a fabulous engine none the less.

[Citric GT]

After having owned turbo and non-turbo ford sixes, an EL XR8, a Boss 290 in the GT and now an LS3 6.2 in the Clubsport, I'd have to say the LS3 is the go. It just goes so good any gear any revs. Love it.

[Gobes32]

My personal favourite would be the 304, it's not the most fastest, economical nor the most refined, but it's a good, honest Aussie engine that will happily slurp lpg and pull a horse float without complaining too much. Pull up next to a VR/VS Statesman with an exhaust and cam upgrade and I reckon they sound pretty special too.

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

In terms of price, fuel consumption, availability and boogey. The Ecotec probably would be up there. You can get conversion kits for just about every RWD car ever sold in Aus (Leyland, Hilux, Corona, Bedford etc) they are a dime a dozen and provide a good overall package. Feels funny calling them "a performance engine" but its the jack of many trades master of none in my opinion.

Exactly irlewy86. And thats exactly what the OP asked for, a best-all-rounder-all-things-considered. It's damn hard to overlook it.

[Molloy]

The mighty Barra T

[FPV8U]

I don't think it's right to compare "Best Engines" based on race results over 30 years ago, look at this, at Sandown in the Australian Manufacturers Championship a BA GT (XR8 With a few upgrades from what i can gather) driven by John bowe and a Co-Driver, beat home 2 VE HSV's & FG XR6T..

Does anyone here really think the BA/BF GT Standard is better than a VE 6.0 or 6.2L GTS around a track?

I'd stick to road car comparisons..

[schnoods]

265 Hemi six pack , L34 308, 4v 351 Cleveland , LS1 (gen 3).

I chose the Hemi over the others purely for its design and power, powering the E49 charger to being the quickest australian production car (14.1 1/4mile, 0-100 5.4, 300hp) until it was overtaken by the VN Group A SS.


I went the Gen3 LS1 over the LS3, as it pretty much started it all and even the LS7 (7 litre) are derived from it. A 7 litre small block is rediculous now.

The clevo created a legend as did the 308, the 308's blitzed any 307,350 or 327 powered hk-hg-ht.

The 202 red motor and 250 xflow are worthy of a mention, im not convinced of the alloy headed sohc ford 6 IMO, but the Ba-fg DOHC effort was far superior.

[GTP290]

Im not bagging it,but wasnt the LS1 the motor that had piston slap issues and had to be recalled by Holden because they burnt oil?
My next car is prob going to be a VZ Clubsport LS2 6 litre. They can be had for about 30k now with low kms. I dont want an R8 because as with the GTPs I dont want to be paying 700 dollars a rotor when the time comes to replace the brakes as it will be my daily, I think thats pretty good value for a car powered with an engine of that caliber.

[Falcon Coupe]

My vote goes to the humble Ford I6.
The longest production run out of all mentioned it created a way of life in Aus.

From taxi's to towing the family caravan/boat, it has always been a reliable workhorse.
In the most recent guise we have straight LPG versions that make remarkably cheap transport to a V8 eating I6T that bang for buck makes the V8's pale into relative insignificance.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

I don't think it's right to compare "Best Engines" based on race results over 30 years ago, look at this, at Sandown in the Australian Manufacturers Championship a BA GT (XR8 With a few upgrades from what i can gather) driven by John bowe and a Co-Driver, beat home 2 VE HSV's & FG XR6T..

Does anyone here really think the BA/BF GT Standard is better than a VE 6.0 or 6.2L GTS around a track?

I'd stick to road car comparisons..

Manufacturers championship is damn close to std spec, personally im more interested a a cars circuit prowess than straight line performance...
I think that result just demonstrates how good the Boss powered cars really are when pushed hard and set up correctly compared to the holdens....
I think sometimes we're all to pre occupied with mag 1/4 times to see the real world drivability of these cars.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Manufacturers championship is damn close to std spec, personally im more interested a a cars circuit prowess than straight line performance...
I think that result just demonstrates how good the Boss powered cars really are when pushed hard and set up correctly compared to the holdens....
I think sometimes we're all to pre occupied with mag 1/4 times to see the real world drivability of these cars.

Agreed, im also more interisted in lap times..

Having a good set-up is one thing.. but the difference is one Mr John Bowe having a ball, throw him in one of those HSV's and im quite confident that he would have probably beaten the EVO/Sti Brigade too..

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Agreed, im also more interisted in lap times..

Having a good set-up is one thing.. but the difference is one Mr John Bowe having a ball, throw him in one of those HSV's and im quite confident that he would have probably beaten the EVO/Sti Brigade too..

While that's true if the cars unreliable or a dog it wont matter how good the steerer is. All it proves is the boss powered cars are definitely competitive if not leaders where and when it maters......

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

While that's true if the cars unreliable or a dog it wont matter how good the steerer is. All it proves is the boss powered cars are definitely competitive if not leaders where and when it maters......

Good points 4Vman.. That particular XR8 & now GT (Would love to know what Spec exactly this car is) has been quite succesfull at the Bathurst 12H & in a few of the normal rounds this year, with the right nut at the wheel.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Good points 4Vman.. That particular XR8 & now GT (Would love to know what Spec exactly this car is) has been quite succesfull at the Bathurst 12H & in a few of the normal rounds this year, with the right nut at the wheel.

Dont forget bowe was only 1/3 of the team at bathurst, and it wasnt a fluke...... the field included allot of decent steerers.....dont underestimate or devalue the result of this car over the past 3 years, its spanked allot of "favorites,"...

[max_torq]

The Windsor V8. This is a beautiful little engine, very compact, yet durable and willing. Easy to build as well and small enough to put in all sorts of chassis. Heaps of development so you can build race engines off the shelf. The last T-series versions are just absolute gems.

[ehast13]

Yeah, Ireckon the windsor was the best ford small block. It is a pity, that more aftermarket heads weren't available 20-30 years ago. I still remember going through all the rigmoral of fitting cleveland heads to the windsor motor.

If you can get a windsor to breathe like acleveland, if you could knock a tonne and a half out of the cleveland - Boss 302 would have been a better street engine with cleveland 2v heads. The huge ports really impeded air flow velocity. Great for 9000rpm but...

The hemi six was probably the best aussie produced engine along with the twin cam ford six.

The hemi was comparable with other top sixes of similar capacity (jaguar 4.2 etc) in terms of power, economy and ability to rev. It's refinement was lacking compared to overseas ohc sixes.

The holden v8 wasn't bad but probably nothing special on a world scale.

I know this may be controversial but I'd rather race a hemi six than a clevo.

I'd rather race a clevo than a holden v8

I don't want to race the twin cam ford six

Probably sentimentality but the old hemi six did a lot for 4.3 litres and was usually bullet proof. It is a pity that chrysler AUS didn't sort themselves out a bit more in the early seventies.

[EgoFG]

love this thread

4vman - yep the 5l+ v8s beat the 4.3 inline 6. does not mean they were better.

I was referring to engines aead of their time - it took over 20 years (IIRC) for an australian car to match the acceleration of the 4.3 Charger - it was a good donk for a 4.3 I6. If only the 340 was allowed to reach its potential.

but hey, how come no one commented on my mention of the leyland 4.4 ?

[GTP290]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

love this thread

4vman - yep the 5l+ v8s beat the 4.3 inline 6. does not mean they were better.

I was referring to engines aead of their time - it took over 20 years (IIRC) for an australian car to match the acceleration of the 4.3 Charger - it was a good donk for a 4.3 I6. If only the 340 was allowed to reach its potential.

but hey, how come no one commented on my mention of the leyland 4.4 ?

They did, but no one really acknowloged it as a great engine in there replies.

[GTP290]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Dont forget bowe was only 1/3 of the team at bathurst, and it wasnt a fluke...... the field included allot of decent steerers.....dont underestimate or devalue the result of this car over the past 3 years, its spanked allot of "favorites,"...

What race are you guys reffering too? I love production type races but I never know when there on or if theyre televised.
I remember the Bathurst 12 hour in the early 90s with Bowe kicking butt in a Mazda RX7 and seing an EB 5 litre roar around the mountain, but since then I havent really seen any production type racing of a large (or small) scale, which is a real shame because I really want to see how the FPV F6 measures up against other cars, particularly at Bathurst!

[mcnews]

To my mind it would count for nothing. How it feels and drives to me in the real world is far more important. I generally don't endurance race cars all that much....

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by GTP290

What race are you guys reffering too? I love production type races but I never know when there on or if theyre televised.
I remember the Bathurst 12 hour in the early 90s with Bowe kicking butt in a Mazda RX7 and seing an EB 5 litre roar around the mountain, but since then I havent really seen any production type racing of a large (or small) scale, which is a real shame because I really want to see how the FPV F6 measures up against other cars, particularly at Bathurst!

The Bathurst 12Hour has been running for 2-3 years, the F6 was in it last two years from memory, it's been about as fast as the pre-mentioned XR8 and finish one place behind it.

[IDT]

[QUOTE=vztrt]It would probably show up their V8's and they wont like that.
QUOTE]

Having recently driven a shelby 08 GT 500 I don't think so.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes, that's what i mean. 1971 Bathurst is the ultimate "Stock V Stock'.. it was the last truely showroom standard production Bathurst....
Oh, by the way, your E49 is a 1972 model.. the Phase 3 was a 1971 model.. i wonder how your E49 would have fared against the 1972 Phase 4...
One was built but never tested by mags...

I Admire you're resilience in the face of overwhelming opposing evidence trev!!! Its all good!

Actually after my visit to Bowdens and conversations with those who currently own and drive Bathurst et al winning cars from all sides and having heard stories of all the "modifications" done to the "factory stock" cars originating from those who drove or managed said cars (Moffat,Brock,Goegan,Bartlett etc) I am VERY sure THERE WERE NO SHOW ROOM STANDARD PRODUCTION FORDS OR HOLDENS RACING AT BATHURST (or Sandown etc) during the muscle car era, they were all VERY modified.

Before the true believers arc up remember there were more than 20 AFF members went on the tour and we were actually SHOWN some of the non factory mods on actual Bathurst GTHOs, Brocks A9Xs, Goegans Monaro etc etc etc

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by flappist

Actually after my visit to Bowdens and conversations with those who currently own and drive Bathurst et al winning cars from all sides and having heard stories of all the "modifications" done to the "factory stock" cars originating from those who drove or managed said cars (Moffat,Brock,Goegan,Bartlett etc) I am VERY sure THERE WERE NO SHOW ROOM STANDARD PRODUCTION FORDS OR HOLDENS RACING AT BATHURST (or Sandown etc) during the muscle car era, they were all VERY modified.

Before the true believers arc up remember there were more than 20 AFF members went on the tour and we were actually SHOWN some of the non factory mods on actual Bathurst GTHOs, Brocks A9Xs, Goegans Monaro etc etc etc

I'ld believe it, everyone was looking for an edge.

[GTP290]

Production car racing stopped at the end of 1972 as is well documented about the supercar scare at the time, but I have read stories were a lot of the cars were modified pre 73, whether or not it was legal, im not sure, but most of the cars were given special treatment. After 73 in the Group C era the cars were heavily modified, which brought some great racing, but unfortunatly Ford pulled out the Factory sponsorship around the same time.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

[/B] model.. i wonder how your E49 would have fared against the 1972 Phase 4...
One was built but never tested by mags...

...and street fords mag is going to do an series of articals on the only "production" phase 4 in the next few months!

[Nikked]

My vote is for the falcon 6, pref 90s versions. cheap to modify and strong (ignoring gaskets!) Xr6 was faster then the Xr8 in the early days, and now the turbo versions are a perfomance icon, and is a true australian effort.