WQ Fiesta Options not available in Oz

[Luke Plaizier]

I remember having a look at few options - Focus/MkIII Mondeo, Mazda 2, Mazda 3. The only one I bought bits for to compare was the Mazda 2 Steering column. I recall having a good hard look at Focus indicators,and the big thing for me there was that there aren't any options to reverse them until very recent models. I did, however, just recently buy a cheap MK7 Fiesta Steering Wheel with Audio/Cruise on the steering wheel to explore. It's success will depend on whether there is a pin or two free in the clockspring for me to use. Mk6 Fiesta chassis/Mazda 2 DY Steering Column/Indicators and Mk7 Fiesta Wheel. If it works I'll be surprised, but chuffed. if not, no great loss.

I was trying to find broadcast messages on the CAN bus for clutch and brake - but they do not appear to exist of the XR4. I can see them in PID queries but I'd rather keep that to a minimum or avoid. Manual wiring is likely unavoidable for interfacing cruise with clutch and brake pedals. The throttle, however, I think I do see in broadcasts - and definitely in PID queries. But I'm not sure yet if they are pedal position values or throttle position values. The Focus with Cruise wires the Brake and Clutch to the Instrument Cluster - so too the Throttle sensors and a couple of other odd things. Which means the Focus likely broadcasts all pedal status on the CAN - but not the Fiesta, which wires those directly to the ECU. The Focus wires the cruise buttons to the PDB CAN module behind the glove box, so those too must get broadcast to the PCM. I'll be getting access to an LS Focus soon so alongside sniffing EHPAs stuff I was going to sniff an Cruise enable/disable message. But alas that LS does not have cruise so I won't be able to see the Cruise Switch broadcast messages - although I suspect I'll be able to see the pedal status messages from the IC. Wouldn't it be curious if I could program the Fiesta ECU with the Cruise enable values of a Focus, and all I need are the messages for the cruise buttons on the CAN bus.....

As for the electrical power load - I had not overlooked it, I just hadn't assessed it yet. We are likely going to need the 105A alternator uprated - but even an LS Focus 2.0 alternator that runs ehpas is only rated to 120A.... which is odd given the ehpas could draw quite a bit of current under full load. I was figuring I'd be able use one of the 3 empty MIDI fuse locations in the BJB and put a 60A or 80A Midi fuse in there for it, so the high current wiring would be very simple. I'm just struggling to find a connector to fit.

Luke

[Luke Plaizier]

The Ford connector for the big power pins has part number 3M5T-14A464-NBC.



There's a guy on ebay US that sells the equivalent Volvo cables and connectors. But each way I'm looking at least about $50 US with shipping. So I've started trawling Facebook Marketplace and Gumtree for people doing home wrecks to see if the connectors can be cut. Wreckers never keep that stuff unless you happen to call them on the days they are doing the actual dismantling.

The little 3 pin connectors can be found on Aliexpress as 'Ford EPS Connector' for a few bucks each. We'll see if that works soon.

Luke

[Aaron]

A brief flit into Cruise Control discussion.


Autostrada definitely do e-Cruise for the WP/WQ and it's a fully integrated plug and play solution. They're also based in Australia etc...



Interestingly there's a Rostra unit (250-9612) from the USA that also would work with some minor attention to pin-outs. It intercepts the throttle pdeal harness and taps the OBD port for the CAN input (speed/rpm/whatever other magic data Rostra use). It's designed and sold for later Focii and Transit vans in the US market, but essentially the electronic and Can data side will be "the same" as a Fiesta, just the e-pedal pinout would need to be compared and tweaked it necessary.



I mention this because the Rostra units sometimes get dumped very cheaply (like AUD300 delivered) cheaply.

[Luke Plaizier]

I actually took a stab at getting Male/Female 6 pin Pedal connector pair without much research a few weeksback - as a bit of a start in created an intercept loom for cruise. The connectors came and they were completely wrong. I had to look deeper. I must have ordered while on the beers one afternoon without much of a care.

And yesterday I found this, which appears to be identical to the Fiesta pedal loom connector in layout and keyway, so I'm going to give it a go. I bought 2 pairs, so with shipping that works out to be $7 per connector:

Aliexpress Ford EPC 6 Way Connectors

In addition, I FINALLY found a power plug that matches what I need for the EHPAS. So I can skip the $50 US connectors, or hawking around for salvage looms that wreckers never keep, but home dismantlers want to charge you for the whole loom, and instead go for this. Note that it doesn't match the image above, because I worked out the hard way that the image above is not quite correct - there are 2 types of power plug, and the one above is the wrong one. I bought 2 of these below for about $13, so again about $6.50 ea. With a dodgy name like that, no wonder I couldn't find it using searches like ehpas, eps, ephs, power steer, or even FORD.

Aliexpress 2 x 9.5mm pin Eletric Booster Pump connector


Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

The other two connectors on the ehpas pump are these:

CAN and IGN Connector


Steering Rotation Sensor Connector

I am yet to find the connector for the steering rotation sensor itself.


Luke

[Luke Plaizier]

Time for a bit of an update.

I've found all the connectors for the EHPAS pump itself by visually going through the listings for connector suppliers on Ali Express. They've all arrived, and match perfectly. This came about because i was able to find someone who would sell me the loom connectors from an LS Focus for the EHPAS and also the sensor and loom to the Steering Rate Sensor.

The EHPAS Power Connector: ~$12AUD for a pair



EHPAS CAN/IGN Connector: ~$13AUD for 5



EHPAS Steering Rate Sensor Connector: ~$10AUD for 10


I've not gotten back to my next steps in the lab just yet, but have been collecting data for it. I have a friend at work with an LS Focus and have been able to do a data capture of his EHPAS CAN messages. It took a bit to organise in amongst this pandemic.

The Steering Rate Sensor I bought from an LS Focus was to see if I can understand it's signalling. With CAN alone we can get the EHPAS pump to vary it's speed based on engine RPM which would be great for a race track....but it would be nice to get steering input as well.

In the meantime I've been working on a lab setup for Climate control based off an LS Focus loom, and I've had a bit of success there as well. That post next...

Luke

[Luke Plaizier]

Awhile back I bought a dash from an Auto Climate Control LS Focus. It had the climate controller, the dash loom and the heater box.

From that I cut out the EATC (Electronic Automatic Climate Control) specific parts of the loom. The LS Focus is a Dual Climate Control system. That gave me the connectors for the sensors for left and right, the actuators for temp left/right, recirc, demist, face/foot, the blower motor and the two main connectors at the back of the EATC module.

The WQ Fiesta EATC module has the same connectors as that on the LS Focus. The LS Focus and the mid LS/LT Cabrio have different EATC modules, but identical wiring. The connectors between the WQ and the LS have an amazing amount of similarities. But there are some differences.

(1) WQ A/C request is a physical wire, LS/LT does it over CAN.

(2) WQ has a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) Motor Controller in place of the standard resistor. The Controller allows for fine blower motor control, as opposed to the resistor which allows 3 only speeds. This then feeds to the standard WQ Blower motor. The LS Focus has this controller embedded in the motor. The COnnector for the WQ Controller and the LS Motor are the same. BUT, while the two high current pins are identical, there are 4 x .64mm pins between them that are used for the control, and these pins are different betweern WQ and LS.

(3) Recirculation control. The WQ actuator for recirculation is a two-position bipolar DC motor. Whicn means the current flows positive or negative depending on whether the recirc is on (Clockwise) or off (Counter Clockwise). The LS Recirc actuator though is like all the others - a unipolar stepper motor. There are 5 pins into these controllers - a common supply, and then 2 x Clockwise steppers and 2 x Counter Clockwise Steppers.

(4) the WQ has a single actuator for face/foot/demist. The LS has one for face/foot left and right, and a seperate actuator for demist.

(5) Dual Zone additions. The WQ actuators map to the Passenger side actuators on the LS. So there are additional actuators for drivers side foot/face and temperature.

I am working from the LS loom at the moment, but am on the lookout for some additional connectors to duplicate the WQ layout so i can do more testing. I built an interface loom to patch power, illumination and the Mid-Speed CAN lines into the LS loom, did a bunch of testing, and then powered it on.

In each case, the illumination turns on in each EATC module. The relevent actuators cycle through their range to calibrate. But i am unable to turn on the module itself. So that puzzled me for awhile. There was mothing come out of the CAN bus either. I did a whole bunch of double checking, and verified that everything is connected to the right pins.

That was a few weeks ago - not long after I did the EHPAS bench test. I've since had a bunch of other chores in my way - steel-topping my bench, rebuilding some storage in the shed, building some undercar exhaust/fuel bla bla bla. I had a number of repairs I'd needed to make to the loom that I found and put off, and more recently have finally wrapped the whole loom in 7mm split conduit - which was a flipping nightmare on it's own. I need a split-loom feeder... The loom conduit made the setup portable without the constant tangling of wires I was getting before.

Today though I finally had some time to roll that solution over to the WQ XR4 anbd plug it in. And instantly all 3 EATC modules fired into life - but only when the Ignition is turned on. So clearly the modules are relying on seeing CAn messages as well before they come alive.

WQ Fiesta Single Zone Climate Control - now alive. And indeed, clicking the foot, face and demist buttons drives the 'Mode' actuator into different locations. i have no recirc control, as to be expected.


This one is the standard LS Focus Dual zone controller. It came alive too with Fiesta messages:


And this one is the Cabrio Dual Zone unit that has the exact same wiring layout to the LS. It's a bit harder to see in the bridght daylight, but you should be able to just barely see the active text on the screen:



Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

Had a bit of a Eureka moment today, finding the message that activates the EATC on my bench lab.




Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

Here's some fun pressing buttons and seeing what data changes on a Focus Cabriolet Dual Zone EATC module.

I'll do this eventually for the WQ Fiesta Single Zone EATC, but I need to solder in some customisation's to the LS Focus loom to allow the WQ parts to work.

The Recirculation Actuator I mentioned is one. The LS Focus is a 4-pin stepper motor. The WQ is a 2 Pin DC motor that has 2 positions - open or closed.

The Blower Motor Controller is another - the WQ Controller has the same connector as the LS Focus Blower itself, but PWM is presented on different pins, and the main power lines flow-on to the standard WQ Blower Motor connector. (I have ordered WQ Blower connectors from Aliexpress for me to wire this up to test, they are not here yet.)

The wire for the A/C Demand is another. I need to solder a break-out for that pin to make sure it is activating A/C as designed. If I can't get an EATC specific loom from the UK, I'm going to have to make sure this loom can feed into the current XR4 loom at those points.

Anyways, on to the next video:



Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

Note - the plan is to do almost this exact same thing for the LS Focus EHPAS pump in the lab. I have some final parts on the way that should allow me to finally setup the system with fluid, and then go hunting for the CAN messages that turn it on.


Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

Pasting this here for future reference. Open in Chrome and translate to english:

https://fiesta-mk6.pl/

A particularly informative page on Auto Climate control in Fiestas embedded in the tech articles.


Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

EHPAS - success activating using a CAN message! A little bit of wee came out. Only running for a little while without fluid, no tests done yet to vary RPM based on road speed or steering rate.

Video is uploading, but will take a few more hours yet till it is uploaded. Yes, my NBN is that bad.


Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

Here's a little ditty of a page regarding electric Focus power steering pumps:

http://www.fokuman.com/component_description-1132.html

Of interest is the comment further down about the Steering Angle Sensor being included invehicles built up to 09/2009. And that modules after that used the CAN bus message for steering!
Could there be 2-connector pumps from Ford in Australia?

Alibaba appears to sell new pumps at $200 USD at a minimum of 1 Unit plus shipping - with only 2 connectors.

The XR5 Focus is around that timeframe crossing LT/LV models, so some early models might have the Steering Sensor, and some later models might not. The LV WOrkshop manual talks about EPS rather that EHPAS so not sure. There are more models ovrseas based on the LV that have the same pump. The Focus C-Max for example. So it looks like the Kuga of the same vintage has that pump too.

I found an XR5T LV Focus pump with only two connectors on eBay for about $100 and snaffled it up. With connector tails, bracket, cutoff fluid connectors - but that model had a separate additional external fluid fill reservoir that isn't included. A nice improvement from the LS/LT Focus, where you had to remove one of the headlights to top it up. So that means we will want to see if CAN messages from the Fiesta can activate the 2-connector pump, AND control the pump RPM via means of Road speed and Steering angle CAN messages.

I am currently in need of some means of playing back the CAN message bus broadcasts from my captures - so I can play them back to the pump and see if rpm changes. I'll keep looking for some thing that uses J2534, but if I don't find anything, I might have to hurry up with this Arduino CAN project. I keep pushing that aside so I can go in the shed and play on the EHPAS and EATC labs...I guess if I can get Arduino going and working right, I'd be able to put in some buttons that let me change values to set RPM manually.

Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

This is the Road Speed/Steering Rate vs Pump RPM Map from an LT Focus:




Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

I'm having some struggles with getting a heater box from the UK - one guy has a EATC equipped car but has strung me along for 3 weeks without even giving me a price. It made me go out and do random searches. I started looking for Fiesta Ghia's for sale in South Africa - and behold I found a few had auto climate control. On a whim I did the same for some being sold in NZ - and same goes there too! WTF, why are we surrounded by countries that have this yet we did not get that option in Australia?

So in a way, thankyou for being difficult UK. And Ford Oz, you are bastards sometimes.


Luke

Well. I'm still being strung along by this dude in the UK. He may or may not disassemble a box for me at some point - he seems to say he will, but I've had no luck yet. NOBODY in any country any where has even come close to helping - UK, NZ or SA. I can find some whole heater boxes in Europe, but the shipping cost is over 500 Euro which is insane. And nobody in Russia seems to want to ship to Australia via anything other than DHL. So bugger it, rather than spend $1000 on shipping for a box, I'm going tospend that money on a 3D printer at take a crack at making up some parts myself - mainly mounting locations for the actuators and those little gears. It's about time I got into 3D printing anyways.

After digging deeper, I found out that the only difference between LHD and RHD heater boxes is which side the Blower Motor goes in. Since that intake-and-recirculation section with the two semi-circular flaps on either side is all symmetrical, the motor could go in either side, with a little curved aero-plate on the opposing side to smooth airflow. The real decider is the pedals - so the motor comes out on the side opposite the pedals. The struggle in RHD markets is the heater piping that runs on the passenger side, which interferes with the removal of the fan and makes it unnecessarily difficult. Anyway, the crux of this is that the whole box splits into 4 sections - the upper recirculation/fan section, the bottom, and a left and right half. The right side of the box in LHD markets is THE SAME globally - part 6S6H 18A584-RH2. That means I've been able to do some searched on Russian and Polish websites and have finally come up with real pictures of that side of the box - which is quite a breakthrough on it's own, since I'd not really found any to date.

So that's what I'm going to do here - punch up a bunch of images of what the auto-climate heater box looks like:

























Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

On another front, I've found suppliers for connectors that I need to make up a daughter-loom for the climate control, and therefore will not require me to cut the current loom. I'll just list the connectors now and will provide part numbers a bit later once I have finalised some things:

* 2 x 26 pin connectors for the EATC module. 1 of them matches the Instrument Cluster connector actually.
* 1 x 6 pin connectors for the interior temp sensor mounted near the EATC module
* 2 x 3 pin connectors for air temp sensors (face, foot)
* 2 x 6 pin connectors for the outlet and temp actuators
* 1 x 2 pin connector for the sunload sensor on the dashboard
* 1 x 12 pin connector to pickup the bluetooth/passenger airbag deactivation connector up beind the passenger airbag. This is for the MSCAN+ and MSCAN- pins
* 1 x 2 pin connector to mate to the existing blower fan connector - to pickup the high current supply
* 1 x 2 pin connector to connect to the Blower motor
* 1 x 6 pin connector to mate to the existing Blower Speed Switch connector - to pickup the high current GND
* 1 x 6 pin hybrid connector - to patch to the Blower Motor Controller - it's different and much bigger than the standard blower resistor. It has high current in/out like the std resistor, but takes a single line from the EATC motor which sends a Pulse Width Modulated signal for the control to vary the resistance and thus the blower motor speed. There are effectively 7 blower speeds on this controller.
* 1 x 10 pin connector - to mate to the existing AC control panel connector, to pickup illumination, Ignition, the Recirculation actuator, Module GND and the A/C demand line to the PCM

So the goal would be:

(a) Provide diagram/loom for mating Climate Control parts to a standard loom.
(b) Provide 3D printed design parts for actuator mounts and air distribution levers/gears.
(c) There's also a different aperture for the Blower Motor Controller, which would require cutting into the current box and fitting a printed 3d section to mount that controller.
(c) Possibly even provide a 3D design for the fascia panel that allows the EATC module and cabin temp sensor to mounted to replace the 3 dials.

It had occured to me that taking the 3d printing route for the face panel would also let me possible mount Focus LS/LT controllers. But there is a real issue with way the Fiesta does the outlet register versus most other cars - which in the Fiesta is via single distribution flap, whereas in other cars like the Focus or Mondeo, the Demist outlet is often a different flap to face/feet. The Mondeo MkIII, which otherwise looks identical to the fiesta controller, is quite different, since it has separate flaps as above.

And for anyone interested, I'm just about to get an EVNOVO/Artillery Sidewinder X1 - which is otherwise a semi clone/improvement on the Creality CR-10 - since I have a few parts in mind that need the 300x300x400 print volume, and I want the direct drive to allow me to print rubbery things like gaskets. (but then i can move into Standard WQ Fiesta Fog Lamp Bezels, XR4 wheel caps, XR4 jacking covers etc etc)




Lukeyson

[LeighMJ]

Would love to get cruise control in mine.

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by LeighMJ

Would love to get cruise control in mine.

I would very much like to develop one, but there is quite a bit in my pipeline for the time being. Powerfold Mirrors and Auto Wipers/Headlights are effectively figured out. But Auto Climate and Electric Power Assistaed Steering are my current hurdles.

In the meantime, there are options out there for the WQ Fiesta/DY Mazda 2 for cruise control at the $500 to $600AUD mark if you were super motivated.


Luke

[Luke Plaizier]

I've just come across another minor discovery. The early indian made Gen 1 Figo (2010 to 2015) had the same heater box as the WP/WQ Fiesta, but they did not have climate control.

The Gen 2 model seemed to have a lot of upgrades, and the heater box looks to be significantly different. BUT, the EATC controller seems to be a single-zone unit! Worthy of more investigation, since it looks as cool as the DZ Focus Cabrio controller I have. Check this out:



Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

I've developed a fascination for the similarity between a 2012 Ford Kuga Instrument Cluster and the 2007 WQ Fiesta XR4 Instrument Cluster:










Lukeyson

[DDevine]

Wow that's a huge amount of effort you're going to!

Let me know what you want pictures of in regards to the front-suspension setup and on a WT (mentioned in my thread) and I'll try to get you those pictures.

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by DDevine

Wow that's a huge amount of effort you're going to!

Let me know what you want pictures of in regards to the front-suspension setup and on a WT (mentioned in my thread) and I'll try to get you those pictures.

Hey mate

I saw your pics of the rear end job in your thread. Nice one. Regarding the front struts, the kinds of things I'd be looking for are probably best done with the WS/WQ front upright next to one another - total length, strut top bolt pattern, coil length/diameter, comparitive height on the strut/angle/length of the steering arm, and a comparison of the lower kingping locator.

I'll get back to that myself eventually.

I've just discovered the lower gearbox mount for the Mazda CX7. It has similar dimensions to the Auto Trans mount I need, but given it locates the Duratec 2.3 Turbo, it is thick and robust like the Manual XR4 versions - but without the 'small end protusion' to fit the IB5. It also has aftermarket versions for racing.



So I bought one and it's on it's way. I am hoping this will be the enabler for me to get a lower trans mount working for the MTX75 - which has admittedly been on the back burner while I've been focussing on the auto climate and EHPAS stuff.

Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

Comparison of CX7 (top & left) lower trans mount to the standard XR4 (bottom & right).

The gap between the centres is very close - about 84mm each.

The small spindle inner diameter looks quite close - xr4 = 11mm, cx7 = 12mm

The large spindle inner diameter looks significantly larger - xr4 = 12mm, cx7 = 15mm. Both will need a larger through-bolt.

The width of the main aluminium shell is identical at 35mm each.

But the width of the CX7 larger spindle is greater - xr4 = 60mm, cx7 = 66mm - which means I'll have to press up a wider mount to weld onto the cross-beam.

Some pics:





Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

An example of aftermarket mounts that are available:



https://www.streetunit.com/SURE_Torq...p/sure0553.htm


Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

An example of aftermarket mounts that are available:



https://www.streetunit.com/SURE_Torq...p/sure0553.htm


Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

I've also started down the 3D printing path for the Auto Climate R&D. This is a little Fiesta AC Arm that was available on Thingiverse that I tried out. It doesn't match any of the Mk6 parts so it's probably a Mk7. Either the Mk7 is different, or it printed slightly out of scale, as the spline that fits over the actuator spindle was about 1mm too big. But it's a good start. Now I just need to spend some time in front of FreeCAD beginners videos so I can start drawing things up.






Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

After 2 lessons on FreeCAD, things look promising:






Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

To add to my seemingly scatterbrain approach, these arrived today. Now, these are actually available on cars sold in Australia, but they seem quite rare, and when I ping someone to see if they are for sale, they either won't sell, or want silly prices for them. I just bought these for about $60 including shipping from Alvadi - non genuine though. Parts AL42648 and AL42649. WIthout shipping they were about 10 Euros all up.

If I am elected president, I promise to scan and make these available as 3D prints. Maybe even thingiverse them. Assuming it's possible of course. And if anybody even cares. About either the bezels or the 2020 US election.

And to clarify, these are not XR4 bezels, they are from a standard 1.6 WQ. The 3 Door that I am doing up with XR4 parts will be remaining a 'sleeper' on the outside, even with the proposed Duratec 2.3T (or 2.5T) in it....




Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

Also this. It's a Windscreen Washer Reservoir tank from a TDCi Mk6 Fiesta. It fits in behind the Air Conditioner Receiver/Dryer and in front of the drivers side wheel arch. This leaves the space behind the passenger headlamp for the Electric Power Steering Pump, which is where our Washer Tanks otherwise normally sit.



This is an image of a TDCi showing where the tank sits:



And where the tank filler neck pops out:



And the space where it will fit in my shed hack:



Versus the location of the standard tank:




Lukeyson