Falcon deserved better

[prydey]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Good point.
The market is mostly moving away from large sedans anyway...their place is being taken by twin cab utes and mid-sized to smaller SUV's which package their interior space amazingly well. You no longer need a physically large car to have plenty of room inside.

The market has changed...and Ford (and to a lesser extent Holden) sadly just didn't seem to see it coming...

if cars were all the same price, the larger cars would still outsell the smaller cars. smaller cars are cheaper, and people realise they can 'make do' with less room. those who 'need' the space, buy larger suv's or large sedans still.

anyone who thinks smaller cars have the same useable space, have been won over my the marketers.

and also, why do you say 'to a lesser extent' for holden?? and what makes you think they didn't see it coming.

ford in all probablity, have not wanted to manufacture in australia for some time. they have kept the research and design facility here, as that is actually worth something to ford. the rest, was costing them money.

too many people let emotions cloud the picture.

[baboon]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Long live the Turbo 6, IMO the best thing to happen to Ford Oz. Makes me wonder what may have been if the falcon was going to still be around for many years to come what might have happened to the I6T and the potential that may have been unleashed with things like direct injection etc.
Gone but not forgotten.

That was the Ford factory backup generator running!

[hootar]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Good point.
The market is mostly moving away from large sedans anyway...their place is being taken by twin cab utes and mid-sized to smaller SUV's which package their interior space amazingly well. You no longer need a physically large car to have plenty of room inside.

The market has changed...and Ford (and to a lesser extent Holden) sadly just didn't seem to see it coming...

I don't agree with it but Ford have been trying to kill off the falcon for years. When was the last time you saw any sustained advertising for the falcon. Plus Ya hardly see many if any new falcons in show rooms anymore. They are just waiting for a suitable overseas model to replace it. There is to many cars to choose from in Australia now that there is no way Falcon or Commodores can sell enough numbers for Ford or Holden to make any money from them and justify there existence to their American parent companies. Unfortunately the manufactoring/labour cost don't help.

I think Ford more so then Holden saw this coming. Ford were not going to waste heaps on a new model falcon. Plus at the moment Ford have a very good mix of vehicles across the range more so then Holden, and with more models being developed I think Ford in time might over take Holden. Time will tell I suppose. It's just a pity that Aussie Workers and our Falcon will be the casualties in Ford Australia trying to exist in the current world markets.

[Ruination]

Originally Posted by hootar

I don't agree with it but Ford have been trying to kill off the falcon for years. When was the last time you saw any sustained advertising for the falcon. Plus Ya hardly see many if any new falcons in show rooms anymore. They are just waiting for a suitable overseas model to replace it. There is to many cars to choose from in Australia now that there is no way Falcon or Commodores can sell enough numbers for Ford or Holden to make any money from them and justify there existence to their American parent companies. Unfortunately the manufactoring/labour cost don't help.

I think Ford more so then Holden saw this coming. Ford were not going to waste heaps on a new model falcon. Plus at the moment Ford have a very good mix of vehicles across the range more so then Holden, and with more models being developed I think Ford in time might over take Holden. Time will tell I suppose. It's just a pity that Aussie Workers and our Falcon will be the casualties in Ford Australia trying to exist in the current world markets.

Which brings me back to my question, if Ford had the Falcon built in the USA, or Thailand (Ranger quality is great) would it be a worthy investment?

Would Ford sell more Falcons if they were actually cheaper?

34k is quite a lot to drop on a brand new standard G6/XR6 Falcon

Granted, Holden are selling the base model Commodore "Evoke" from 39.7k

[prydey]

of course they would sell more if cheaper. building them locally means they are massively hamstrung. the same car built as a global car and built in thailand would be $5-$10k cheaper.

[johnydep]

I doubt that price alone is a factor in increased Falcon sales. Size is also a factor.

Regardless of how much more room a Falcon 5 sweater has over a medium sized 5 sweater, they both seat 5. And most of the time there is only a driver in the car, or the kids being dropped off at school. Long distance drives are limited now that air travel is cheap, though when used for a country drive a medium sized car is more than capable. As some have mentioned, parking is becoming more of a concern with tighter areas that welcome small to medium cars.

Have a look at the average family car in the 50's & 60's, they weren't that big but families were & travel distances longer.

Our main car now is the Honda Accord Euro; it fits 2 adults plus our 17 & 15 year old teenagers easily, including my sons girlfriend. We've driven many Kim's without a grumble.

I may be wrong, but I've thought for the past 10 or so years that if the Falcon & Commodore was slightly smaller they'd sell more. Just have a look around at the size of the cars on the road, or in car parks.

Ford had the right idea with the Territory, shorter than a Falcon.

Oh we'll, it's all just talk now that it's over.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Falcman0o7

I blame tight arsed uneduacted car buyers aussie sheep.

Yeah ok, fair point, but i dont wanna bring up an old chestnut. But where is your new XR6/XR6T etc etc?
I could have purchased 2 new XR6T's in the last 3 years, i didnt. Does that make me uneducated?

Im not saying you not entitled to your opinion but that is like a red rag to a bull sorry.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Long live the Turbo 6, IMO the best thing to happen to Ford Oz. Makes me wonder what may have been if the falcon was going to still be around for many years to come what might have happened to the I6T and the potential that may have been unleashed with things like direct injection etc.
Gone but not forgotten.
image

/thread]

As for the Saab comments...Saab is/was still in the game because of its proximity to the European market and volume available.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by prydey

anyone who thinks smaller cars have the same useable space, have been won over my the marketers.

Funny that you say that when I personally have fitted a 7 piece outdoor setting (table in a large box and chairs already assembled) in my little Laser liata hatchback with my wife and I in the front still, where I had no chance of it fitting in my AU II XR8, so much for useable space huh ?.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Falcman0o7

I blame tight arsed uneduacted car buyers aussie sheep.

So because people are looking around at more options, they are "sheep"...


Wouldn't buying a Falcon, just because its a Falcon, because you're dad said its better, be more sheep action?

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

/thread]

As for the Saab comments...Saab is/was still in the game because of its proximity to the European market and volume available.

Japan succeeded exporting their vehicles to the world, by ship. The Japanese government & industry had a plan in the 50's, they worked on it & succeeded in the 70's.

Australian federal government tried a plan in the 80's - the Button Plan, but the manufacturers & State governments did not have the ticker to push the plan. Subsidies were given to keep developing a car that a shrinking Aussie buyer base wanted.

The death of an Aussie car industry that built only for a shrinking local demographic was inevitable.

Reminds me of a story - about 20 years ago I had a HJ Caprice with all the options, rebuilt engine & drive train. Loved the car but it was time to sell. I tried to sell that car for 6 months, finally putting in a auction. After I sold it for a bargain, everyone come out of the wood work saying "wish I knew mate, I would have paid double" etc.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by mik

This ******** is talking like the current and recent models have drum brakes and handle like a 1970 falcon, nothing could be further from the truth.

Sorry but I don't actually disagree with the article. My FG XR8 was wofeul at braking under high speed and caught me out more than once. That said, I wouldn't say it was dangerous, just more a characteristic of the car that you had to get used to. Obviously the 5.0 is a lot better.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Funny that you say that when I personally have fitted a 7 piece outdoor setting (table in a large box and chairs already assembled) in my little Laser liata hatchback with my wife and I in the front still, where I had no chance of it fitting in my AU II XR8, so much for useable space huh ?.

That tunnel thinking. Some cars only have ski access in the rear....others fold the whole rear seats(FG farlcon)

I can fit an 1000electric scooter and a mountain bike in my FG. My friend can't even fit a pram in his Hyundai i30.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

My friend can't even fit a pram in his Hyundai i30.

Then he's not trying hard enough! I bought the parents one of these and it's a great car with plenty of room.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

That tunnel thinking. Some cars only have ski access in the rear....others fold the whole rear seats(FG farlcon)

I can fit an 1000electric scooter and a mountain bike in my FG. My friend can't even fit a pram in his Hyundai i30.

Yes both rear seats fold down in a Falcon but you are still limited by the frame on the sides in that you can not fit items that are large in size by width compared to a Hatchback.

And common mate.. don’t give me that crap about the size of a i30 and a pram.

I was commenting to Prydeys response in that useable size is not a marketing ploy by manufactures to sell smaller car’s, when I fold down the seat’s in my Laser I can fit more sizeable object’s in there then you would or I would in my Falcon, Hatchback’s are virtually wagons.

[Falcman0o7]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Yeah ok, fair point, but i dont wanna bring up an old chestnut. But where is your new XR6/XR6T etc etc?
I could have purchased 2 new XR6T's in the last 3 years, i didnt. Does that make me uneducated?

Im not saying you not entitled to your opinion but that is like a red rag to a bull sorry.

I can't afford a new car but plenty of people can.
Like people buy 4000 commodores but only 500 falcons and we know the falcon is better car. Reviews ect also have the falcon in favour.
When I say uneduacted I mean most of those that bought a commodore simply bought it because it was a COMMODORE.

[Falcman0o7]

Originally Posted by Nikked

So because people are looking around at more options, they are "sheep"...


Wouldn't buying a Falcon, just because its a Falcon, because you're dad said its better, be more sheep action?

Oh FFS.

People buying a commodore because it's a COMMODORE.
People not buying a falcon because it's a FALCON.
I'm talking about every tom dick and harry buying what they do mostly because of it's popularity.
Just forget it I can't beleive the amount of ******* there are.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by Falcman0o7

Oh FFS.

People buying a commodore because it's a COMMODORE.
People not buying a falcon because it's a FALCON.
I'm talking about every tom dick and harry buying what they do mostly because of it's popularity.
Just forget it I can't beleive the amount of ******* there are.

People are entitled to spend their money where they see fit, and some people do buy the Holden product because it’s a Holden purely because it’s an image thing and brand awareness, something which Ford lack’s against when compared to Holden.

Holden and in particular the Commodore in Australia has a very strong following and it’s image can account for a lot of it’s success.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

I was commenting to Prydeys response in that useable size is not a marketing ploy by manufactures to sell smaller car’s, when I fold down the seat’s in my Laser I can fit more sizeable object’s in there then you would or I would in my Falcon, Hatchback’s are virtually wagons.

well, yes i guess everyone an list off some object that fitted more easily in a smaller car due to the shape or size of the object, or shape or size of the opening into which you were trying to fit it.

my point is about carrying the things they were designed to carry, and whilst a smaller car can carry the same amount, i still question whether it can do it as well or as comfortably.

how many cars can fit 3 child seats across the rear?

everyone's circumstances are different, and the fact that cars spend much of the time with a single occupant isn't really a valid argument. people don't buy multiple cars for multiple uses. they buy one car that can do all the uses they need it to do.

also, lets not go comparing mid cars like mondeo, accord etc, as its not like they are setting the sales charts on fire either. i'm talking more about the cars that are selling, namely small cars.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Then he's not trying hard enough! I bought the parents one of these and it's a great car with plenty of room.

Well it fits in my boot. It will NOT fit in their Hyundai boot. They have to lay the seats down. but then where do the baby seats go??? It does fit in the reAr of their focus. So my point was its car specific.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Well it fits in my boot. It will NOT fit in their Hyundai boot. They have to lay the seats down. but then where do the baby seats go??? It does fit in the reAr of their focus. So my point was its car specific.

probably says more about the pram than the car. some prams would struggle to fit in the back of a hummer!

[chookaradley]

I remember watching a TV interview with ex P.M and treasurer Paul Keating. He spoke of senior management from Detroit coming out to AUS in 1990 to shut down Ford Australia. Even back then the cost of doing business was too high. He goes on to say that it was only extensive crisis talks that managed to avoid that outcome.

When you think about it it kinda makes sense around 1990. Ford had made a huge investment for the all new EA Falcon. Things did not go well for the EA early days

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by chookaradley

I remember watching a TV interview with ex P.M and treasurer Paul Keating. He spoke of senior management from Detroit coming out to AUS in 1990 to shut down Ford Australia. Even back then the cost of doing business was too high. He goes on to say that it was only extensive crisis talks that managed to avoid that outcome.

When you think about it it kinda makes sense around 1990. Ford had made a huge investment for the all new EA Falcon. Things did not go well for the EA early days

MoFoCo never had faith in Ford Aus.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Yes both rear seats fold down in a Falcon but you are still limited by the frame on the sides in that you can not fit items that are large in size by width compared to a Hatchback.

And common mate.. don’t give me that crap about the size of a i30 and a pram.

I was commenting to Prydeys response in that useable size is not a marketing ploy by manufactures to sell smaller car’s, when I fold down the seat’s in my Laser I can fit more sizeable object’s in there then you would or I would in my Falcon, Hatchback’s are virtually wagons.

Rubbish, that is a vague statement. Here is my old Fairmont Ghia with x4 32" inflated wheels in the back of it. I've now sold this car for a BMW 320d, and I can tell you every time I start the Euro **** I miss driving a Falcon. For someone who does a lot of highway driving there is not a lot that can touch a Falcon or Commodore.



The BMW can get over 1000km to a tank. Easier to park in the city's shrinking parking spaces. This is the ONLY benefit it has over my FG ute. I took a pic of my old Fairlane in Wellington city about two feet too big for the park, my current ute the same length. No thanks to the greenie feminist lycra clad cyclist dike mayor who thinks everyone should be driving VW Polos. Seems all council and govt. agencies the western world over are more & more influenced by these environazi types.



I've just had a VF rental the past week in Perth. I always specify Falcon or Commodore when I book a hire car. First time in a VF and I was impressed. Finally dawned on me that this will be no more in two years. Sad times. You'll struggle to find a better long distance driver.

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

My friend can't even fit a pram in his Hyundai i30.

The poor bastard will be using that as an excuse. You know your life is over when you have to push a pram around and drive a Hyundai.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Yes both rear seats fold down in a Falcon but you are still limited by the frame on the sides in that you can not fit items that are large in size by width compared to a Hatchback.

And common mate.. don’t give me that crap about the size of a i30 and a pram.

I was commenting to Prydeys response in that useable size is not a marketing ploy by manufactures to sell smaller car’s, when I fold down the seat’s in my Laser I can fit more sizeable object’s in there then you would or I would in my Falcon, Hatchback’s are virtually wagons.

This.

As far as practicality goes - hatch > > > sedan. The large opening is great for fitting bulky items that won't fit through a sedan. That's part of the reason why I'll be looking at a Mondeo to replace my Fairmont when the time comes.

Originally Posted by Falcman0o7

Oh FFS.

People buying a commodore because it's a COMMODORE.
People not buying a falcon because it's a FALCON.
I'm talking about every tom dick and harry buying what they do mostly because of it's popularity.
Just forget it I can't beleive the amount of ******* there are.

Oh, I see. So people who don't buy Falcons are sheep. Everybody needs a Falcon, right?

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by smoo

Rubbish, that is a vague statement. Here is my old Fairmont Ghia with x4 32" inflated wheels in the back of it. I've now sold this car for a BMW 320d, and I can tell you every time I start the Euro **** I miss driving a Falcon. For someone who does a lot of highway driving there is not a lot that can touch a Falcon or Commodore.

image

The BMW can get over 1000km to a tank. Easier to park in the city's shrinking parking spaces. This is the ONLY benefit it has over my FG ute. I took a pic of my old Fairlane in Wellington city about two feet too big for the park, my current ute the same length. No thanks to the greenie feminist lycra clad cyclist dike mayor who thinks everyone should be driving VW Polos. Seems all council and govt. agencies the western world over are more & more influenced by these environazi types.

image

I've just had a VF rental the past week in Perth. I always specify Falcon or Commodore when I book a hire car. First time in a VF and I was impressed. Finally dawned on me that this will be no more in two years. Sad times. You'll struggle to find a better long distance driver.



The poor bastard will be using that as an excuse. You know your life is over when you have to push a pram around and drive a Hyundai.

Lol.. go and re-read my post again mate and take note of the sentence where I clearly say "you can not fit items that are large in size by width”

Let’s see you put a sizeable table top in the back of your Falcon ?.

Where you have 4 tyres in your Falcon , I could probably have 6 in my Laser, like I said the hatchback is virtually a wagon and the Falcon is limited by the opening where the rear seats fold down.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Where you have 4 tyres in your Falcon , I could probably have 6 in my Laser, like I said the hatchback is virtually a wagon and the Falcon is limited by the opening where the rear seats fold down.

Having done an interstate trip in my old TE50, and done 3 in my old XR5T and 1 in my ST i can tell you that the Focus is a lot more accommodating of luggage then my old AU was. I dunno about the size of both but i always seemed to have more room in the Focus

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by tempted

Have you even been in, let alone driven a VF Commodore? Serious question. If not then you really should refrain from making uneducated and simplistic comments as all you are doing is coming across as a one eyed bogan, no different to the Holden fans which you take great delight in critisizing.

Pretty sure he means the falcon over the years has been better. Currently it's very old compared to the vf so direct comparisons are mute. He's right tho. Falcon has been the superior car overtime in most forms except arguably hsvs. Falcon has been rated above commadore in many tests. And I don't remember the last time commadore won Coty!
At worst the sales figures should have been equal if Aussies didn't act like sheep and bought the better car in the class.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by tempted View Post
Have you even been in, let alone driven a VF Commodore? Serious question. If not then you really should refrain from making uneducated and simplistic comments as all you are doing is coming across as a one eyed bogan, no different to the Holden fans which you take great delight in criticizing.

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Pretty sure he means the falcon over the years has been better. Currently it's very old compared to the vf so direct comparisons are mute. He's right tho. Falcon has been the superior car overtime in most forms except arguably hsvs. Falcon has been rated above commadore in many tests. And I don't remember the last time commadore won Coty!
At worst the sales figures should have been equal if Aussies didn't act like sheep and bought the better car in the class.

And I think that tempted means that just because people decide buy something other than a Falcon, does not make them sheep. If anything, the people that buy a brand for brand sake may be the sheep.

People buy cars that suit their budget and personal requirements.

I speak to vehicle owners most days of the week, and 95% buy their car on budget and personal requirements.

As for Falcon being the "best", it's no goo being the "best" for 2% of new car buyers, it needs to be the "best" for a lot more people.

Ford & Holden stuck to their guns on the Falcon & Commodore, local sales have been falling for years. Don't blame new car buyers. Maybe look at other factors - why people buy second hand instead of new, why people looked at different brands, why both manufacturers couldn't build on OS export model like other countries have, etc.

Calling people "sheep" is just a cop out!

ps - the Camira won COTY

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Originally Posted by tempted View Post
Have you even been in, let alone driven a VF Commodore? Serious question. If not then you really should refrain from making uneducated and simplistic comments as all you are doing is coming across as a one eyed bogan, no different to the Holden fans which you take great delight in criticizing.



And I think that tempted means that just because people decide buy something other than a Falcon, does not make them sheep. If anything, the people that buy a brand for brand sake may be the sheep.

People buy cars that suit their budget and personal requirements.

I speak to vehicle owners most days of the week, and 95% buy their car on budget and personal requirements.

As for Falcon being the "best", it's no goo being the "best" for 2% of new car buyers, it needs to be the "best" for a lot more people.

Ford & Holden stuck to their guns on the Falcon & Commodore, local sales have been falling for years. Don't blame new car buyers. Maybe look at other factors - why people buy second hand instead of new, why people looked at different brands, why both manufacturers couldn't build on OS export model like other countries have, etc.

Calling people "sheep" is just a cop out!

ps - the Camira won COTY

Nobody here is stupid...we all know about the large car sales drop.. It's the fact that over the recent years....THE BETTER CAR HAS Sold "LESS". And were talking about falcon vs commadore

And yes....maybe 100 years ago the camira was the best car at the time. Don't see how that's relevant to falcon v commadore.