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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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04-08-2009, 04:20 PM | #61 | |||
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Quote:
Short gearing helped the ecotec out alot, and this is where the 3L can be made to feel quicker.
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04-08-2009, 04:23 PM | #62 | |||
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Yes prediction modelling is not exact and there would be a lot of calibration engineers on the heap if it was 100% predictable, but you can get pretty close using a few variables. I agree that peak power and torque figures are pretty ho hum, but they do give two significant vectors that you can swing an arc around to get an idea of power and torque curves, a rough profile as it were. Then there's always bragging rights/rites. |
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04-08-2009, 04:23 PM | #63 | ||
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Not forgetting GM has used 98ron on their spec sheets for a while now.. The engine is definately going to be an improvement on the existing unit.. but it wont walk all over the I6 I dont expect.
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04-08-2009, 04:26 PM | #64 | |||
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04-08-2009, 04:34 PM | #65 | |||
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04-08-2009, 04:37 PM | #66 | |||
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04-08-2009, 04:43 PM | #67 | ||
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Quick summary of my views at this point, bearing in mind we haven't got torque curves or driven the engines yet:
3.0 DI....hope it hits that fuel burn number because i don't see it setting the timesheets on fire. Faster than the old 4sp auto omega maybe, but that is down to gearing/top end power as much as anything. 3.6 DI....disappointing torque number as usual...top end power is its only chance to match an FG I6 over the quarter...it will get murdered at low speed. Both engines are competitive AT THE MOMENT but barely. The 3.0 can go up against medium cars (which is what it is...it can't be a large car if it isn't packing some nm....its the nature of the segment) but the 2.0 ecoboost Falcon will kill it. Totally. To the tune of 40-50 nm, and 1l/100km. 3.6....matter of time till Ford matches its power number (particularly since the ecoboost 2.0 lets the 4.0 off the base model leash) and fuel burn is no better that the I6 does now. As usual this is not a engine lineup that has legs at all. It doesn't really future proof the commodore one little bit...the engines are either matched by current competitors already or will be within the near future. Also worth noting that alot of this advantage is probably throttle calibration/auto gearbox/aero/weight saving (not much of the last one). As usual the alloytec has hamstrung the engineers...one trick poney. You get power, but no torque. Fuel efficiency, but no mumbo.
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04-08-2009, 04:52 PM | #68 | ||
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I know the released info says 91ron recommended, but is the power figure measured on 91ron, or does it need 95ron?
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04-08-2009, 05:28 PM | #69 | ||
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Personally, I'd love to see how well a GM 4.0L V6 would perform against the venerable Ford 4.0L I6. That 0.4L of displacement could make all the difference...
Regards, Dave
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04-08-2009, 06:21 PM | #70 | |||
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When you consider some testing of the A6 BF XT has achieved numbers in the low 7 or high 6 0-100 and mid 14 second quarter mile results, this is a LONG LONG way behind. |
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04-08-2009, 06:35 PM | #71 | |||
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If ford gets the so called 'free kick' of 0.4 L bigger capacity, then surely the benefits of DI, newer design alloy block, and the supposed might of GM powertrain should be sufficient compensation. Either way, you play with what you've got. Besides, if what Holden claims is true, an alloytec can be built in 4.0 size....
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04-08-2009, 07:04 PM | #72 | |||
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We're lucky we have the 4.0, folks. Power delivery is suited to the street more than any other 6 on the market.
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In relative terms, for a direct injected vs port injection, there isn't much to crow about when the specific torque of the 4 litre is better. Secondly, how well it "breathes" doesn't help much if there's not many cubes to pull 1.7t. It's a mismatch.
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04-08-2009, 07:13 PM | #73 | ||
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If Holden are getting 350Nm out of a 3.6L V6, I would say that 390Nm out of a 4.0L V6 wouldn't be too far-fetched. If you do the maths, 350 / 3.6 = 97.222R, 97.222R * 4 = 388.888R.
Regards, Dave
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04-08-2009, 07:14 PM | #74 | |||
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04-08-2009, 08:39 PM | #75 | ||
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And The Game Of Leap Frog Continues,,well Done Holden,,your Turn Now Ford
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04-08-2009, 08:49 PM | #76 | ||
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http://www.drive.com.au/Know/
Dont know if its been posted allready |
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04-08-2009, 08:51 PM | #77 | ||
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removed.
Last edited by Windsor220; 04-08-2009 at 09:05 PM. |
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04-08-2009, 08:54 PM | #78 | ||
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Omega / Berlina
3.0L SIDI V6 (LF1) 190 @ 6700 290 @ 2900 No torque and you need to Rev the chit out of it to get any Power....... Did they pull this V6 out of a Camry? Like to see it pulling a 9.3 L/Ph out on the Hwy with a 5 passengers and Luggage wile maintaining 110km/h!!
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04-08-2009, 08:59 PM | #79 | |||
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The alloytec is probably maxed out a 3.6 size. I doubt it would maintain its (somewhat average) torque/litre values once pushed to that larger size. If it did, who knows what would happen to fuel burn and driveability. Fact is, as alluded to by Falc'man, the alloytec is not very good at producing torque. The numbers you have used are for a DI 3.6 alloytec, versus a port injection 4.0 I6. Yes the I6 is undersquare, but this helps 'low down' torque prodution more than just the raw torque value. DI should provide much better results for the alloytec, but it just doesn't. Whatever the reason holden has struggled to provide much in the way of torque improvmeent at all (10nm gain in 3.6, and the 3.0 didin't even crack 100nm/l). As i say, we will have to at least wait for some more info plus drive reviews before we can say much more.
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04-08-2009, 09:07 PM | #80 | ||
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Wouldnt matter what GM put under the skin, ther,e marketing will sell it anyway. They do the propper gander thing very well.
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04-08-2009, 09:09 PM | #81 | ||
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http://www.caradvice.com.au/37419/ho...nes-same-look/
hmmm, the two comparisons are a bit misleading. Last time I checked the Xt produced only 236g/km and 9.9l/100. Even with the 5 speed its 239g/km and 10.1l/100.
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04-08-2009, 09:13 PM | #82 | |||
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you'd swear Holden invented the wheel the way journo's jerk off over the slightest 'Holden' thing. : Sorry yeah, thats a quote at the bottom of the story.
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04-08-2009, 09:15 PM | #83 | ||
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I think Ford's I6 has some life left in it yet. If nothing else we can only hope that todays marketing carnival by Holden provides some prodding to the Ford boys to up the ante on the I6 and let it live to it's real potential.
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04-08-2009, 09:26 PM | #84 | ||||
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Regards, Dave
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04-08-2009, 09:50 PM | #85 | |||
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04-08-2009, 09:58 PM | #86 | |||
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04-08-2009, 10:01 PM | #87 | |||
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The difference is, the actual claims for the Falcon can be replicated. (The BF with ZF didn't have problems getting below 10s)
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04-08-2009, 10:03 PM | #88 | |||
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04-08-2009, 10:35 PM | #89 | ||
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Here's another shocking comparison that the car mags will never show...
FG Falcon 4.0L I6 - 230Nm/tonne VE Commodore 3.0L V6 - 170Nm/tonne You can't make a big family sedan, then stick an underpowered motor in it and expect fuel savings...looks like Holden will learn this the hard way after all the media hype settles..
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04-08-2009, 10:49 PM | #90 | |||
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Does anyone know if their quoted power figures are on 98 fuel.. they certainly used to quote them that way... and Ford should start doing the same. (or at least quoting 91 AND 98) |
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