Constant lane changing in heavy traffic a big cause of freeway crashes: VicRoads

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

People can't use a ******* roundabout properly and need to come to a complete stop, we've got no chance of trying to change attitudes about changing lanes and keeping left etc

"You do realize it's a 100kmh limit, that means I can go any speed up to 100kmh and change lanes and sit where I like as that's only a recommended sign"

"Oh you're one of those people that represents 2% of the population that likes to dictate what speed I can do?"

The vast majority of road users still think it's 'give way to the right' at roundabouts.....

See it every day. No amount of convincing will tell them otherwise... I have people driving with me sometimes who look at me shocked when I sail through a round about at 20km/h without stopping for that car that's also doing 20km/h but 150m away to my right. Apparently I need to stop and wait for them...

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Ever driven on a British motorway? When entering, the lane you're in continues on so there is no reason to change lanes. Its the rightmost lane that closes further up, so the rightmost lane traffic needs to change lanes. Makes for much safer safer entries / exits of motorways, and encourages drivers to stay in the left lanes.

I remember this & found it works really well, that and drivers are happy to move over to let somebody past if they want to go faster.

Over here there is some sort of Vigilante attitude that makes people sit in the right lane at 99kph, and they start flapping their arms or shaking their head if you left lane them..

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

How's this for an idea... get the coppers out from behind the shrubs on the freeways and actually on the roads??? Totally blitz the 'keep left unless overtaking' rule to death.

Every now & then they do blitz the M7 like this. However, in recent years the traffic volume has all but wiped out the benefits of having 2 lanes. Not like 8 years ago when you could do the entire length in peak hour and not drop below 100.

Yesterday I took one of my Brock commodores out for a run. Bad day for it with near 40°C temps.... so the cooling system wasn't happy, especially with aircon making it's job harder.
Coming home on an 80km/h dual carriage road (in the left lane), I had a motorbike cop come up beside, then slow down & pull in behind. All the while I'm thinking "temp is up in the red, don't pull me over, just let me nurse it home where I can cool it down." I wasn't doing anything wrong, so I had no fear of a ticket, but you do get a bit more "RBT attention" than you do in daily drives.

Came up to a set of lights, and he split the lane up beside me & tapped on my window. I buzzed it down, and he'd raised his helmet to ask me if I was aware I had a bit of steam coming out underneath. I pointed to the gauge & said "yeah, she doesn't like hot days, so I'm just trying to nurse it home. The steam is from the overflow that I've extended & run down under the car so it doesn't fill up the chassis rails with water like the original." His reply "good luck mate, hope you make it home" before clipping his helmet down & riding forward up between the cars, checking for mobile phone usage (as they all do now when splitting at lights).

What a great PR moment for the cops. No hassles, no attitude, just trying to be helpful. It's a shame more of them don't do this. But on the flip side, there's probably a lot of drivers out there who'd still give them attitude even if the cop tried to do the nice thing.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by XWGT

The problem is you are in the biggest blind spot of the vehicle in front of you and behaving in an unexpected manner so your amping the risk factors right up.
The reason we use rules and regulations is to try and create some certainty around how people act and react. So when you do something that is not expected and illegal your simply increase the risk of an accident markedly. Its like going through a stop sign. It will work for awhile but eventually someone will not register your unexpected behavior in time and clean you up.

What that poster described isn't undertaking (in the australian road rules anyway) or illegal
Its simply passing on the left, and completely legal in a marked lane.

Its when it is unmarked lanes where it becomes undertaking.

We also have a thing called common sense (not so common anymore) where if you cant or wont travel at the speed limit, you move left. Then the people who wish to travel at the maximum allowable speed can continue past you with no issues.

I know thats what i do if for any reason i dont want to do the speed limit (stay out of the right lanes)

[railtrolley]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Poor lane discipline, the problem is its a 4 lane freeway and you get a bunch of douches driving slow in three of the 4 lanes creating a rolling roadblock.

So people chop and change lanes to get around them.

Not only that but a big section of it is 80km/h, they widened it and dropped the speed limit from 100 to 80, whats the point?

I'm aware in peak times you won't get close to 80 but in non peak times its a PITFA.

Then they want to reduce the speed limit on the Tullamarine Freeway to 80km/h after the widening is complete? Why bother widening it then? Just leave it as it is and leave it to 100km/h.

These freeways in Melbourne are being widened the cheap way. Add an extra lane by converting the emergency stop lane to a running lane, but not keeping an emergency stop lane. Without the emergency stop lane, the freeway speed limit cannot be 100km/h, too dangerous I s'pose, so the limits are dropped to 80km/h.

Remember years ago when the Westgate bridge was 100km/h? It was widened to 4 lanes and no longer had an emergency stop lane, so it was dropped to 80km/h. Now it is 5 lanes.

Besides this lane changing my pet peeve is driver's who go on the freeway with insufficient fuel and run out -causing a totally unnecessary hold up.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by railtrolley

These freeways in Melbourne are being widened the cheap way. Add an extra lane by converting the emergency stop lane to a running lane, but not keeping an emergency stop lane. Without the emergency stop lane, the freeway speed limit cannot be 100km/h, too dangerous I s'pose, so the limits are dropped to 80km/h.

Remember years ago when the Westgate bridge was 100km/h? It was widened to 4 lanes and no longer had an emergency stop lane, so it was dropped to 80km/h. Now it is 5 lanes.

Besides this lane changing my pet peeve is driver's who go on the freeway with insufficient fuel and run out -causing a totally unnecessary hold up.

Yes that's what I heard, my idea would be to utilise the lane speed signs they have and make an emergency lane in off peak periods, therefore lift the speed limit.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

What that poster described isn't undertaking (in the australian road rules anyway) or illegal
Its simply passing on the left, and completely legal in a marked lane.

Its when it is unmarked lanes where it becomes undertaking.

We also have a thing called common sense (not so common anymore) where if you cant or wont travel at the speed limit, you move left. Then the people who wish to travel at the maximum allowable speed can continue past you with no issues.

I know thats what i do if for any reason i dont want to do the speed limit (stay out of the right lanes)

Road rule 141 makes this true on a multi-lane road.
However if people observed rule 130, then passing on the left would only occur in bumper to bumper traffic.

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by XWGT

The problem is you are in the biggest blind spot of the vehicle in front of you and behaving in an unexpected manner so your amping the risk factors right up.

If people adjusted their side mirrors correctly then there isn't any blind spot on a car. Side mirrors are not for seeing what is directly behind you, that is what your windscreen mounted rear view mirror is for. Side mirrors should be adjusted out to see into the next lane, exactly where the "blind spot" is. When side mirrors are adjusted correctly you shouldn't be able to see your own car in the mirror!

When reversing and wanting to see down the side of the car then you just tilt your head slightly to the side and you can see the gate post or whatever you are trying to avoid.

And I would bet 95% of all drivers have them set up wrongly.

[stig_3754]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Yes that's what I heard, my idea would be to utilise the lane speed signs they have and make an emergency lane in off peak periods, therefore lift the speed limit.

The only issue with that is keeping the smartasses off the emergency lane when it's active, otherwise I think that's an ideal solution. Or instead of making the limit 80km/h as they do now, make it 90km/h for off-peak times and don't remove the lane. 80km/h seems a bit excessive in off-peak times IMO.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by stig_3754

The only issue with that is keeping the smartasses off the emergency lane when it's active, otherwise I think that's an ideal solution. Or instead of making the limit 80km/h as they do now, make it 90km/h for off-peak times and don't remove the lane. 80km/h seems a bit excessive in off-peak times IMO.

True but only if they need to get past a road block I assume

I was actually on the Monash around 11pm after the cricket Tuesday
4 lanes of some of the best road in the country - with minimal traffic. 80kph limit.
there were still people hogging the right hand lane..

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by NTF6

If people adjusted their side mirrors correctly then there isn't any blind spot on a car. Side mirrors are not for seeing what is directly behind you, that is what your windscreen mounted rear view mirror is for. Side mirrors should be adjusted out to see into the next lane, exactly where the "blind spot" is. When side mirrors are adjusted correctly you shouldn't be able to see your own car in the mirror!

When reversing and wanting to see down the side of the car then you just tilt your head slightly to the side and you can see the gate post or whatever you are trying to avoid.

And I would bet 95% of all drivers have them set up wrongly.

I disagree side mirrors are to see what's behind you, not in the lane next to you... Think of trucks, vans & large trailers that render the windscreen mirror useless.

I have additional wide angle mirrors fitted which nearly cover it all but you still need to turn your head but probably more so for the drivers side

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by NTF6

If people adjusted their side mirrors correctly then there isn't any blind spot on a car. Side mirrors are not for seeing what is directly behind you, that is what your windscreen mounted rear view mirror is for. Side mirrors should be adjusted out to see into the next lane, exactly where the "blind spot" is. When side mirrors are adjusted correctly you shouldn't be able to see your own car in the mirror!

Yep, every time we go to a capital city both outside mirrors get moved from the 'what's behind me' position, to the 'what's in the next lane' position.

Waste of time using three mirrors to see behind you.............unless you've got a trailer on

[HyperXH]

I agree blitz the people cruising in the right hand lane.
Driving under the speed limit can cause accidents just as much as driving over the limit. Definitely inattention on the driver's behalf and frustration for the other drivers which can lead to more risk taking.

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

I disagree side mirrors are to see what's behind you, not in the lane next to you... Think of trucks, vans & large trailers that render the windscreen mirror useless.



I have additional wide angle mirrors fitted which nearly cover it all but you still need to turn your head but probably more so for the drivers side



image

Trucks, vans and large trailers behind you are irrelevant, your windscreen mounted mirror is only to see the vehicle directly behind you, it won't plough up your ring any easier than a car and what is behind that is irrelevant. Do a quick google search and see what those side mirrors are really for. Adjust them properly and you just might not do a lane change into another car.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GT450]

Originally Posted by NTF6

If people adjusted their side mirrors correctly then there isn't any blind spot on a car. Side mirrors are not for seeing what is directly behind you, that is what your windscreen mounted rear view mirror is for. Side mirrors should be adjusted out to see into the next lane, exactly where the "blind spot" is. When side mirrors are adjusted correctly you shouldn't be able to see your own car in the mirror!

When reversing and wanting to see down the side of the car then you just tilt your head slightly to the side and you can see the gate post or whatever you are trying to avoid.

And I would bet 95% of all drivers have them set up wrongly.

The fist thing they teach you on your defensive driving course is to adjust your seats and mirrors correctly so you can effectively control and see as much as possible. And yes most drivers have them adjusted incorrectly.
GT450

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by GT450

The fist thing they teach you on your defensive driving course is to adjust your seats and mirrors correctly so you can effectively control and see as much as possible. And yes most drivers have them adjusted incorrectly.
GT450

I still have my wing mirrors adjusted angled outwards after being "educated" about this on my FPV drive day years ago. It's amazing the difference it makes and how your vision is widened.

People have developed bad driving habits and most won't turn their heads more than a cm to check around them. Tech like lane departure and blind spot monitoring has infected a lot of drivers. It makes these people an absolute increased hazard when they jump into cars that don't have the gizmos.....

[noflac52]

Bottom line is if you don't turn your head to check as well as checking your mirrors when doing any lane change manoeuvres you aren't a very good driver!

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by NTF6

If people adjusted their side mirrors correctly then there isn't any blind spot on a car. Side mirrors are not for seeing what is directly behind you, that is what your windscreen mounted rear view mirror is for. Side mirrors should be adjusted out to see into the next lane, exactly where the "blind spot" is. When side mirrors are adjusted correctly you shouldn't be able to see your own car in the mirror!

When reversing and wanting to see down the side of the car then you just tilt your head slightly to the side and you can see the gate post or whatever you are trying to avoid.

And I would bet 95% of all drivers have them set up wrongly.

Well mate that is a load of crap, if you do tow with a trailer or van then your set up is illegal, think you should look up how side mirrors should be set up, you should be able to see your rear corners of your own vehicle or trailer/van.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by trublu

Well mate that is a load of crap, if you do tow with a trailer or van then your set up is illegal, think you should look up how side mirrors should be set up, you should be able to see your rear corners of your own vehicle or trailer/van.

There was no mention or trailer or 'van in NTF6's post.

Quite obviously if your interior rear vision mirror is obstructed by either then your outside mirrors need to be adjusted accordingly.

[Bill M]

I was told in the early days that the view from the door mirrors should just catch the rear door handles - Useless!
In my utility the blind spot is not at the rear but just behind the B pillar so I adjust my door mirrors to cover this. The central rear-view mirror handles the rear, the door mirrors handle the back 3/4 the the eyes have the rest.

Bill.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

There was no mention or trailer or 'van in NTF6's post.

Quite obviously if your interior rear vision mirror is obstructed by either then your outside mirrors need to be adjusted accordingly.

Regardless of towing read my post again, I did say side mirrors should see the rear corners of your own vehicle.

This link will explain the correct position of side mirrors & the reasons why.
http://www.driverknowledgetests.com/...ors-correctly/

[blackf6]

Quarter glass convex mirrors are a must.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by trublu

Regardless of towing read my post again, I did say side mirrors should see the rear corners of your own vehicle.

This link will explain the correct position of side mirrors & the reasons why.
http://www.driverknowledgetests.com/...ors-correctly/

Ah well that's different, our Darren has been doing theory websites for 7 years.

Me ? I've only been an Interstate Driver for >40 years and had a Drivers license for 52 years, so what would I know ?

"Darren has owned several companies in the automotive, advertising and education industries. He has run driving theory educational websites since 2010".

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by trublu

Regardless of towing read my post again, I did say side mirrors should see the rear corners of your own vehicle.

This link will explain the correct position of side mirrors & the reasons why.
http://www.driverknowledgetests.com/...ors-correctly/

I agree with that link. I like to just catch the rear corner, mainly as a reference point so I know how much space I have. I spent 6 years in a van with no windows in the back bar the tailgate which had limo tint on it and often loaded to the roof the centre mirror was useless most the time. The best investment for a van that defines what a blind spot is was the convex mirror I put on the passengers side. You have to get used to them, but they made my life so much easier, especially with motor bikes around. Yes I can hear it, but I could seldom see them if they were 2 lanes over or almost at my passenger door. I did the same thing to the ute, it has a smaller blind spot but again, the front glass of the canopy is smaller then the rear window and the canopy windows are a foot back from the cab so its still not ideal, just better. I have it stocked to the roof often anyway so that's as bad as the windowless van. I don't bother with convex mirrors on the sedans because you just turn your head, but on the comercials, best $7 investment ever. Probably why I never smashed the van in 6 years, but the other 2 vans have a combined 7 accidents last year alone.

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by trublu

Well mate that is a load of crap, if you do tow with a trailer or van then your set up is illegal, think you should look up how side mirrors should be set up, you should be able to see your rear corners of your own vehicle or trailer/van.

You only need to see the rear corners of your vehicle when you are in the act of reversing, this can easily be achieved by tilting your head slightly to the side (left or right) and then you will see the rear corner of your vehicle. You should not be able to see your own car in your side mirrors in order to be able to see the "blind" spots in the adjoining lanes. If this is too much for some people then only a sliver of your own car being visible will still allow you to see most of the "blind" spot.

Give it a try and see how easily the car can be seen when the nose of the other car is a few meters from your rear bumper.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Ah well that's different, our Darren has been doing theory websites for 7 years.

Me ? I've only been an Interstate Driver for >40 years and had a Drivers license for 52 years, so what would I know ?

"Darren has owned several companies in the automotive, advertising and education industries. He has run driving theory educational websites since 2010".

Well there you go old dogs should learn new tricks, I've been in the transport game myself & over the years you do learn new things regardless of your own experiences as to what you thought was correct.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Problem with this is that the definition of "correctly" adjusted is very subjective, even from those with lots of experience.

A bit like asking which colour FGX XR8 is the best (although we all know that Emperor leads the way in that department )

A quick sample of those websites that purport to tell you the "correct" way shows that there seems to be about three or so "correct" versions

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

Problem with this is that the definition of "correctly" adjusted is very subjective, even from those with lots of experience.

A bit like asking which colour FGX XR8 is the best (although we all know that Emperor leads the way in that department )

A quick sample of those websites that purport to tell you the "correct" way shows that there seems to be about three or so "correct" versions

For some reason that reminds me of what is written in the acma standard (I can't remember the books official name, but I have a copy kicking around somewhere) and it states the 2 terms it uses. Should and shall. Shall means you have to do something a specific was, and should is just a recomendation. It makes things pretty black and white and less open to interpretation.

[commodorenutt]

If I can see out the main rear vision mirror, then I "open out" the side mirrors more.
However, when towing the car trailer, or anything that blocks rear vision, I pull the side mirrors in a little, so I can just tilt slightly to see down the side of the car if/when I need to, but sitting straight I still have half decent blind-spot vision.

If you have no way of seeing behind out the middle, permanently (say a truck or van with a divider), then you should either fit a camera & central monitor (a lot of campervans come equipped like this now) and if not fitted by the OEM, fit the wide-angle blind-spot mirrors as well - so the main mirrors can see down the side, and you still have blind spots covered. I've noticed more & more OEMs doing this on new commercial vans, which is a good step forward.


However, the main problem with mirrors is not the adjustment, but educating people on when/how to use them. They are there to make you aware of your surroundings, and for looking in BEFORE you attempt a lane change. So many people these days just stick the blinker on, and either move, or then look in the mirror and wait for someone to slow down & let them move into the lane.

If people used mirrors to make them aware of surrounding vehicles, not only would we have less accidents, but they'd know when gaps were opening up, and lane changes would be smoother, and without the "jamb on the brakes, I need to change lanes" scenario which is all too common on freeways these days, and has massive ramifications for the traffic behind - that one event triggers a chain reaction in 10-20 vehicles behind it.

I'm amazed at the people who get hit on the freeway, who don't take evasive action. I've had close calls, but I was taught to always have an escape route in mind - either up a shoulder, or into the lane beside, so always be aware of what's around you. I've driven like this for 20+ years now, and the only accidents I've had were unavoidable not-at-fault ones where someone did something at the last minute (like the p-plater who ran the red & hit me). I've had more than a handful of close calls on the freeway commute that would have been accidents had I not been aware of the surrounding traffic, and had escape routes planned - people changing lanes without looking (perhaps simply not paying attention) or swerving at you to avoid someone else, without realising you're there.

[TER2BO]

Just read all these comments.
Agree with most of them.
However I do on average 800klm per week around Melb. including all the Motorways (can't call them Freeways any more.).
Yes, people not looking or having thier mirrors adjusted are a problem.
So too are the ones that turn and then indicate (not the required 3 blinks).
More so the ones who think that they have right of way regardless ( not correct !!!)
BUT worst of all are the ones who are on ice or driving a stolen car.
They will normally be 'speed'ing up to 50klms above the limit, dodging in and out of lanes,(including the emerg. lane), cutting off others ,crossing up to 3 lanes at once, some unlicenced,unregistered and underage.
See at least 1 every couple of days - where are the Police when you need them.