Fires

[dannyxm]

I for one want more back burning. It is actually a good chance to use it to our advantage.

I live in Douglas Park / Wilton area, at the foot of the Southern Highlands where the Balmoral fire is now sort of contained.

The 'fuel' on the ground is just ridiculous, back burning is the best way to go.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by xxx000

I just wish the RFS would get on and begin actually extinguishing these fires instead of lighting more and more backburns.
we don't need to create more and more opportunities for accidental fire spread, we need to limit the amount of fire activity especially considering the forecasts for Wednesday etc

more wet stuff on the red stuff NOT red stuff on red stuff.

Mate it doesn't quite work that way,

Have you ever heard the term fighting fire with fire? That's what a back burn is, (not having a go just using the old saying as an example)

Don't over think it, fire needs 3 main things Heat, Oxygen and Fuel if you take one of these 3 out you have no fire, a back burn is used to remove the fuel, once there is no more fuel there is no more fire.

Getting water to these areas either via tanker, or air is very difficult not to mention time consuming and not very efficant on a large scale (your bush fire tanker has a few tousand liters, and say your running 2 branches on even first aid lines your still using 100 - 150 liters per minuet) water is excellent in controling smaller fires though, so with back buring you run a fire line where the best spot is to put the fire up becasue its been set with a number of factors taken in to consideration its easy to manage with water, once this burn is deep enough you have what you hear on the news as a containment line, then when the running fire reaches it in a perfect world the fires out

(Yes I know this is an extreamly simplistic way of discribing how it works but I'm now at hour 29 and thats as good as I'm going to give)

[castellan]

Originally Posted by my_gxl

No worse than people throwing cigarette butts. That's just as bad as others deliberately lighting them.
It also doesn't help when similar lowlifes dump rubbish in the bush.

I flew to Newcastle last Monday, then drove back up. It was fairly smoky then.....

Stay safe.

Yes good old QLD every idiot just drive along and just tosses their cigarettes out the window without any regard at all.
And cars not don't have anything to stub them out with now do they.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by castellan

Yes good old QLD every idiot just drive along and just tosses their cigarettes out the window without any regard at all.
And cars not don't have anything to stub them out with now do they.

While it isn't an excuse, that is an interesting point. I noticed that a ciggy lighter and ash tray are now optional extras on the new Mirage I put a deposit down on.

An old backpackers trick was to use film canisters to store your butts while off the beaten track, even they are now obsolete!

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

While it isn't an excuse, that is an interesting point. I noticed that a ciggy lighter and ash tray are now optional extras on the new Mirage I put a deposit down on.

An old backpackers trick was to use film canisters to store your butts while off the beaten track, even they are now obsolete!

Yep all this is true, but I was at one of those discount stores the other day for something or other and they had these little black things that fit in your cars drink holder that are an ashtray, these are able to be opened and cleaned and reused, they were mega expensive though at a whopping 2 for $5

I have to confess that I am a non Smoker and have never been one (too bigger tight ****) but I think its disgusting in any weather to flick a cigarett but out on to the ground, be it from a car window or walking down the street.

failing that theres always the glass soft drink bottle, yea it looks gross and stinks but put the lid on it and toss it at the end of the trip

[my_gxl]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

While it isn't an excuse, that is an interesting point. I noticed that a ciggy lighter and ash tray are now optional extras on the new Mirage I put a deposit down on.

An old backpackers trick was to use film canisters to store your butts while off the beaten track, even they are now obsolete!

Coke bottle, as it fits in the drink holder- or QUIT.

I used to smoke, but never threw them. People who litter the country-or light fires deliberately-should GET OUT, as they have no respect for their homeland.

https://report-littering-dumping.ehp.qld.gov.au/

For anyone in QLD who wants to drop in a cigarette ( or any other rubbish) dropper. I have done so before-and will continue to. (its dangerous to motorbike riders too).

[MarkAW]

Yes I'm a city person, albeit the outer western suburbs but I still can't understand why the "mountains people" can't build "bush fire resistant" dwellings. Everthing in brick, no more timber.

The technology is already available in the market place, roof sprinklers to draw from your swimming pool, just add a petrol/diesel pump. Its not that big a deal and neither is getting it serviced once a year. Steel mesh shutters for your windows and doors - you only hang them when a fire is in the vicinity. Use the heavy duty aluminium sarking under the roof tiles or zincalum roofs to seal the roof space and seal the eaves where the gutters join the roof.

Lastly get rid of the ****in trees next to the house - plant a tree at the other end of the property - threaten council with litigation for preventing removal of trees, what ever it takes. Do like the farm houses of the 50s and 60s - nothing grows within 10 yards of the house other than a few flower beds.

The parents of a close friend of my wife's have just lost their house at Yellowrock. The house was in amongst the trees and it looked beautiful and thats why it burned.

In the end the insurance companies will force change, just like those living in a flood zone. If you want the bush around your house then you will have to pay a higher premium based on risk.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Yes I'm a city person, albeit the outer western suburbs but I still can't understand why the "mountains people" can't build "bush fire resistant" dwellings. Everthing in brick, no more timber.

The technology is already available in the market place, roof sprinklers to draw from your swimming pool, just add a petrol/diesel pump. Its not that big a deal and neither is getting it serviced once a year. Steel mesh shutters for your windows and doors - you only hang them when a fire is in the vicinity. Use the heavy duty aluminium sarking under the roof tiles or zincalum roofs to seal the roof space and seal the eaves where the gutters join the roof.

Lastly get rid of the ****in trees next to the house - plant a tree at the other end of the property - threaten council with litigation for preventing removal of trees, what ever it takes. Do like the farm houses of the 50s and 60s - nothing grows within 10 yards of the house other than a few flower beds.

The parents of a close friend of my wife's have just lost their house at Yellowrock. The house was in amongst the trees and it looked beautiful and thats why it burned.

In the end the insurance companies will force change, just like those living in a flood zone. If you want the bush around your house then you will have to pay a higher premium based on risk.

There are a few holes in your post

A Brick home don't = fire proof home

These sprinkler systems while good, do not = a fireproof home

And you already do pay a higher premium if you are in a bushfire area

Not everyone wants to live in a concrete jungle, they like trees etc around and for the most part take the necessary precautions to make them as safe as possible, this was a freak fire storm nothing less, there were houses lost that would pass any test

as for planting trees at the other end of the property, these were mostly building blocks, so the other end of the property could well have been less than 10m

Please don't take this as a personal attack, its not, and your not the only one who is thinking along these lines and you are entitled to your opinion, all I'm trying to do is point out why the things you are suggesting are not the complete answer, if you disagree that's fine by me

[xxx000]

There's been countless instances of containment lines (new speak for backburns ) getting out of control, jumping roads/ rivers etc
lighting more and more, which they are, gives countless more opps for this to happen again.

they're using more driptorch fuel than water at the moment and this mindset needs to change

the members are well intentioned but being led in the wrong direction

these fires will drag on until the weather stops it not the efforts of the RFS

[davenl5l]

while I feel for people's losses it still p#@*'s me off that my insurance will go up again to pay for it . it's bad enough that I have to pay flood insurance for a house that will never flood !!

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by xxx000

There's been countless instances of containment lines (new speak for backburns ) getting out of control, jumping roads/ rivers etc
lighting more and more, which they are, gives countless more opps for this to happen again.

they're using more driptorch fuel than water at the moment and this mindset needs to change

the members are well intentioned but being led in the wrong direction

these fires will drag on until the weather stops it not the efforts of the RFS

And you know this how?

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by xxx000

There's been countless instances of containment lines (new speak for backburns ) getting out of control, jumping roads/ rivers etc
lighting more and more, which they are, gives countless more opps for this to happen again.

they're using more driptorch fuel than water at the moment and this mindset needs to change

the members are well intentioned but being led in the wrong direction

these fires will drag on until the weather stops it not the efforts of the RFS

Up there with stupidest post of the week

[MrEL]

Originally Posted by xxx000

There's been countless instances of containment lines (new speak for backburns ) getting out of control, jumping roads/ rivers etc
lighting more and more, which they are, gives countless more opps for this to happen again.

they're using more driptorch fuel than water at the moment and this mindset needs to change

the members are well intentioned but being led in the wrong direction

these fires will drag on until the weather stops it not the efforts of the RFS

Since your such an expert on the matter how about you get out of the house , get your **** up the mountains and tell them how they are doing it wrong?
If you get out without being lynched by the locals and then your left overs being celebrated on by the firies it will be a miracle.
I have been up there working on infrastructure the last few days and there is no way you could stop that fire with water once it got its march happening.
The destruction is so intense and random.

[LG17]

Don't bite Yeti - let the ignorant and ill-informed feel good about themselves and their opinions just for a second.

The firies are doing a magnificent job in the face of harrowing odds and doing it well.

Keep it up (if you can you must all be buggered!) and best of luck for tomorrow.

By the reports it's going to be a very difficult day.

[TC200six]

Saw this pic appear on Facebook, I've never seen a smoke plume like that before.

Stay safe people

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by MrEL

Since your such an expert on the matter how about you get out of the house , get your **** up the mountains and tell them how they are doing it wrong?
If you get out without being lynched by the locals and then your left overs being celebrated on by the firies it will be a miracle.
I have been up there working on infrastructure the last few days and there is no way you could stop that fire with water once it got its march happening.
The destruction is so intense and random.

Been there, worked there already
rfs management love the S44 decs and will keep this going as long as possible. They love the doom and gloom predictions
the smoke from backburns is shocking and unnecessary

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by TC200six

Saw this pic appear on Facebook, I've never seen a smoke plume like that before.

Stay safe people

Wow... looks like something out of a Sci-fi movie... wish it was.

[Bearman]

God damn, how bad is this going to be?? Stay safe everyone!!

Very upset to hear of looters going through abandoned houses. The swear filter on this site will not allow me to convey my absolute disgust at the behaviour of these low life's!! Hope they get their karma.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by xxx000

There's been countless instances of containment lines (new speak for backburns ) getting out of control, jumping roads/ rivers etc
lighting more and more, which they are, gives countless more opps for this to happen again.

they're using more driptorch fuel than water at the moment and this mindset needs to change

the members are well intentioned but being led in the wrong direction

these fires will drag on until the weather stops it not the efforts of the RFS

Empty vessels do indeed make the most sound .

[toothless]

Originally Posted by hawkgirl

its really nice to hear of all the good hearted people turning up to the brigade door with homemade cakes, baked meals etc.... its humbling and very much appreciated, i can assure you (and helps make the 9pm to 8 am shift easier )

i would love to just walk up and ask where do you want me but being over weight and having asthma will not help me it was bad enough that i use to be a smoker and gave up

[usernametaken]

I can't work out whether you are naïve or just stubborn, XXXOOO?

I suggest you spend some time researching just how ill-informed your argument is.

Been there, done that...?

Put up just 'what' exactly and reason your argument or move on.

As it stands you sound like a greenie with issues souring the good work that is being done by fire fighters.

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

There are a few holes in your post

A Brick home don't = fire proof home

These sprinkler systems while good, do not = a fireproof home

And you already do pay a higher premium if you are in a bushfire area

Not everyone wants to live in a concrete jungle, they like trees etc around and for the most part take the necessary precautions to make them as safe as possible, this was a freak fire storm nothing less, there were houses lost that would pass any test

as for planting trees at the other end of the property, these were mostly building blocks, so the other end of the property could well have been less than 10m

Please don't take this as a personal attack, its not, and your not the only one who is thinking along these lines and you are entitled to your opinion, all I'm trying to do is point out why the things you are suggesting are not the complete answer, if you disagree that's fine by me

Please take my posts as only in the spirit of learning and understanding.

I did choose the word "fire resistant" very carefully as I realise that structures, particularly dwellings are never going to be "fire proof" especially once a fire storm hits with crown fires jumping from free to tree at rapid rates. What I am really suggesting is that the fire resistance of most private structures go from starts burning readily to very difficult to start burning.

Your suggestion that this was a "freak" fire is something I would question as the frequency of devastating fires seems to be on the increase. This maybe a function of increased media banging on about it but I don't think so. It wasn't so long ago that King Lake happened in Vic.

[Ben73]

It's just started raining where I live pretty much in the centre of Newcastle.
Lets hope this rain stretches to reach the fires just north and south of Newcastle at least.

Some one ibn a previous post said remove trees next to your house and threaten the council with legal action if they refuse it, well I know Lake Macquire Council allows you to remove trees that are within 5 metres of an approved structure without permission. Also any tree that is less than 3m tall can be removed without permission not matter where it is.
I believe other councils have similar rules.

[hawkgirl]

Originally Posted by tuffmont

i would love to just walk up and ask where do you want me but being over weight and having asthma will not help me it was bad enough that i use to be a smoker and gave up

so come work radio with us in our nice hectic building .....

[hawkgirl]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Your suggestion that this was a "freak" fire is something I would question as the frequency of devastating fires seems to be on the increase. This maybe a function of increased media banging on about it but I don't think so. It wasn't so long ago that King Lake happened in Vic.

The reason the fires are so bad is partly due to the fuel load on the ground. The Warrumbungle fire had estimated fuel loads of approx 35 tonne / hectare; due to lack of fire management by NPWS the estimated loads currently in the mountains is in places 60+ tonnes / hectare. I would surmise that its not so much an issue with frequency of "devastating" fires per se, as with a low frequency of controlled fires at all.

[mik]

Originally Posted by cobramania

Heard on the news on the way home from work, an 11 year old boy has been arrested & refused bail for starting this fire & another one (Port Stephens - Heatherbrae & Salt Ash). Properties were lost at Salt Ash. Heatherbrae is still going & has currently burnt out over 5000 ha.

That would be very upsetting for those that lost family or property, I Don't know what it is for people with enough age that should know right from wrong to light fires purposely,
when they must have some inkling people could be hurt or even worse, I can understand a bit of the fascination with fire itself for the very young, when I was a 4 year old dear old ma came out at one stage to see some newspaper in a nice little bonfire on the kitchen floor .......... she put it out not to much harm done except for burnt lino, and prior to that I had been putting lit matches into a full 20 lt drum of kerosene to see what would happen(it didn't ignite), it was used for the old kero heater, I was too young to know any better(but very curious as a lad), but a nice tanned bum saw an end to those flaming experiments.

Anyway, best wishes to those in the danger areas and a hip hip for our fireys/emergency services,and volunteer workers.

[mik]

Originally Posted by hawkgirl

The reason the fires are so bad is partly due to the fuel load on the ground. The Warrumbungle fire had estimated fuel loads of approx 35 tonne / hectare; due to lack of fire management by NPWS the estimated loads currently in the mountains is in places 60+ tonnes / hectare. I would surmise that its not so much an issue with frequency of "devastating" fires per se, as with a low frequency of controlled fires at all.

I think Victoria could also be a big problem this year, we have had 2 previous mild summers and a surprising good sprinkle of rain this year, if we get a run of hot days to dry all the growth out, Victoria might also cop it, just have to cross the fingers, it is ****ing down as I speak......er type.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Please take my posts as only in the spirit of learning and understanding.

All good mate that's why I said don't take this as a personal attack.

I have a problem where as sometimes what I want to be seen as a respectful disagreement to some ones comment is taken as an attack, sometimes I don't care to much, but in your case I wanted it to be seen as nothing more than the other side of the conversation

Originally Posted by MarkAW

I did choose the word "fire resistant" very carefully as I realise that structures, particularly dwellings are never going to be "fire proof" especially once a fire storm hits with crown fires jumping from free to tree at rapid rates. What I am really suggesting is that the fire resistance of most private structures go from starts burning readily to very difficult to start burning.

Building codes have changed alot over the last 20 odd years to include alot of features that if maintained well can be very effective as part of the property owners fire protection plan

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Your suggestion that this was a "freak" fire is something I would question as the frequency of devastating fires seems to be on the increase. This may be a function of increased media banging on about it but I don't think so. It wasn't so long ago that King Lake happened in Vic.

Yes and No I've been interested in these things since 1985 when the kids in my cul-de-sac got together and had a cake / bric-a-brac store at Castletowers to raise money for the people who lost it all in the blue mountains fires then, when I turned 16 I joined my local RFS and have been up the mountains many times for various companies and now I'm also with NSW Fire & Rescue, to me it feels the intensity is higher (but I could just be getting old) but the frequency without looking at actual statistics I would say its hard to say

[LG17]

Originally Posted by mik

That would be very upsetting for those that lost family or property, I Don't know what it is for people with enough age that should know right from wrong to light fires purposely,
when they must have some inkling people could be hurt or even worse, I can understand a bit of the fascination with fire itself for the very young, when I was a 4 year old dear old ma came out at one stage to see some newspaper in a nice little bonfire on the kitchen floor .......... she put it out not to much harm done except for burnt lino, and prior to that I had been putting lit matches into a full 20 lt drum of kerosene to see what would happen(it didn't ignite), it was used for the old kero heater, I was too young to know any better(but very curious as a lad), but a nice tanned bum saw an end to those flaming experiments.

Anyway, best wishes to those in the danger areas and a hip hip for our fireys/emergency services,and volunteer workers.

4 is a bit different to 11 though Mik.
An 11yo knows!

[The Yeti]

All I will say on the 11yo is did you see the news footage of him and his father after he was released from custody?

There's a father that's instilled values in his child (read in a sarcastic tone)