Electricity prices have killed the economy.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Lotte

Climate change is a theory, there is evidence to support the theory, that's why it's a theory and not a hypothesis. Climate change has sped up since the industrial revolution, and whether or not that is the primary cause can never be wholly determined.

Therefore the 1% are scientifically right!

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Therefore the 1% are scientifically right!

No. By that logic, gravity is a falsity as well.
I should have clarified, there needs to be enough substantive evidence for it to become theory, and no longer hypothesis.

"A hypothesis consists either of a suggested explanation for an observable phenomenon or of a reasoned proposal predicting a possible causal correlation among multiple phenomena. In science, a theory is a well-substantiated, unifying explanation for a set of verified, proven hypotheses. As opposed to theory, a hypothesis needs to be testable and falsifiable."

[Dr Jekkyl]

I think we are witnessing here a case-in-point of hijacked debate.

[ebxr8240]

Greedy state gov treating our electrical meters like speed cameras..The reason they say is they are the the shareholders and want their dividends.. Strange part the gov doesn't exactly have money.. Its ours.. Hmm ?? not in this case.
These schemes have to be paid for and the people who didn't participate are paying now!!
Plus the last 20 years there hasn't been much upgrade to the network .. Mainly maintenance..
It will get worse if they sell it off..

[zilo]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Therefore the 1% are scientifically right!

Yesterday, July 18th 2013 temperature in Melbourne 23.3 degrees Celsius.


The HIGHEST July temperature ever recorded....

and climate records keep breaking.

And people have doubts about Climate change?

http://www.meteorology.com.au/news

" Today saw the mercury rise to 23.3 degrees in Melbourne, the highest July temperature recorded for Melbourne since records began in 1855. Moorabin and Scorsby also experienced record maximum July heat reaching 23.1 and 22.2 degrees respectively. These warm temperatures occurred as warm and strong and gusty northerly winds...."

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Yup.... lots of things are killing our economy and that is one of them.

Add these to your list:
Oil and its derivatives
Water

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

We shouldn't wait but I don't see a half-assed tax made up by a bunch of politicians being a good start.

A country taxing its 20 odd million people because of their carbon foot print is a bit of a joke, compared to China and India and their billions of people, and their lack of care for the environment.

Looking at facts, and fact is we produce more more pollution per head than anywhere else, don't get bogged down in the India and China argument, per capita we are the worst.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by zilo

" Today saw the mercury rise to 23.3 degrees in Melbourne, the highest July temperature recorded for Melbourne since records began in 1855. "

Can you be sure that the temperature wasn't higher than that prior to 1855?

[Lotte]

It's not about weather temperature, it's about global surface temperature.
And yes, science can demonstrate its warming.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by Lotte

It's not about weather temperature, it's about global surface temperature.
And yes, science can demonstrate its warming.

I for one DON'T believe it. All you people that preach it need to walk the walk instead of just talking. That means no v8, no race cars no cars at all. Walk, or ride a pushy, until then you are being nothing but hypocritical.

[glimmerman]

If governments really wanted a fix they'd put a solar panel on every home roof. But that's robs them of money. It's that simple. We could end up powering all our homes with solar, less requirement for power stations, up the amount of energy storage stations for times solar isn't producing as much, we could all drive v8s and still produce less emissions. If people are serious about something they do it, but they are fat cats - the cost of the nbn could of put solar on every roof, I work for a telco and we run purely fibre so I know how much it costs for every metre you need to run.
If they were serious about the future of our kids and our grandchildren they would take the steps needed.

[glimmerman]

And anyone who thinks global warming is a gimmick - is an absolute moron. Is been acknowledged, it's been proven and all sides of science have acknowledged it, there is no longer a debate about is it real, science has accepted it. For anyone who doesn't know how it works which is every person who says it isn't real, green house gases trap heat in our atmosphere and prevent it leaving, we have been lucky that our oceans have stored carbon, our deserts have stored carbon but it's at the point now it's too much and is preventing the suns heat from leaving the atmosphere so everything between the surface and atmosphere gets warmer.
Carbon has built up that much now arid deserts are starting to support plant life. Maybe we get lucky, plants thrive in areas they didn't, through photosyntheses they start removing more carbon, but the odds are low.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by ute83

Can you be sure that the temperature wasn't higher than that prior to 1855?

Originally Posted by Lotte

It's not about weather temperature, it's about global surface temperature.
And yes, science can demonstrate its warming.

Scientists are going to need another ten years of satellite observations before they can determine whether or not the rate at which ice sheets are melting is a result of global warming, a new study said. The rate at which ice sheets are melting is not enough for scientists to conclude that it is due to global warming.

Published Monday (15/7/2013) in the journal Nature Geoscience, it is not yet clear if the melting of ice sheets in Antarctica and Greenland is due to global warming or if it is simply a fluctuation in the climate. Either way, experts said in the report they will need another decade to determine.

Climate scientists are still hesitant to credit the loss of mass in the ice sheets to global warming. The researches said they still need another ten years of satellite data to be able to predict what the glaciers and the ocean level will look like at the end of the century.

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

Sometimes I truly wish we could all rise up as one and take these idiots in Canberra to task they exempt themselves from any accountability what so ever

Don't worry, sooner or later it may happen here.
Do you think the people in other civilised countries who riot do it for the fun of it?
It's out of desperation... and if the state of our society/economy continues to deteriorate and the Government continues to take the pi$$, there will be a breaking point.
Sometimes I think we Aussies are too relaxed for our own good. The government has truly fu@k$d us this past decade without most of us even realising it.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by glimmerman

And anyone who thinks global warming is a gimmick - is an absolute moron. Is been acknowledged, it's been proven and all sides of science have acknowledged it, there is no longer a debate about is it real, science has accepted it. For anyone who doesn't know how it works which is every person who says it isn't real, green house gases trap heat in our atmosphere and prevent it leaving, we have been lucky that our oceans have stored carbon, our deserts have stored carbon but it's at the point now it's too much and is preventing the suns heat from leaving the atmosphere so everything between the surface and atmosphere gets warmer.
Carbon has built up that much now arid deserts are starting to support plant life. Maybe we get lucky, plants thrive in areas they didn't, through photosyntheses they start removing more carbon, but the odds are low.

Another hypocrite.

[Rodge]

What are you guys paying per kilowatt hour on average ?

[BHDOGS]

The solar panel rebate is what raised our prices asell now every poor person who couldn't afford solar is subsidizing the rich with there solar system by paying more into the electricity grid to sustain it

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Rodge

What are you guys paying per kilowatt hour on average ?

Victoria
Peak: 31c per kWh
Off Peak: 16.3c per kWh
Off Peak Hot Water: 16.3c per kWh
Supply charge: 95c per day

Rodge...
Did anything come of the trial of small wind generators on roofs that (I think) Meridian were conducting?

[monte.b]

Originally Posted by glimmerman

And anyone who thinks global warming is a gimmick - is an absolute moron. Is been acknowledged, it's been proven and all sides of science have acknowledged it, there is no longer a debate about is it real, science has accepted it. For anyone who doesn't know how it works which is every person who says it isn't real, green house gases trap heat in our atmosphere and prevent it leaving, we have been lucky that our oceans have stored carbon, our deserts have stored carbon but it's at the point now it's too much and is preventing the suns heat from leaving the atmosphere so everything between the surface and atmosphere gets warmer.
Carbon has built up that much now arid deserts are starting to support plant life. Maybe we get lucky, plants thrive in areas they didn't, through photosyntheses they start removing more carbon, but the odds are low.

Well im a moron,cause its a load of rubbish to keep the scientists in a job ,but so are you ,the tax is on co2 which is carbon dioxide, not carbon

[xtremerus]

IMHO the theory of climate change is correct. It has ALWAYS changed through millions of years.

The hypothesis that climate change is human induced, is the contentious and arguable issue.

Some believe that, that hypothesis is already a proven theory.

[BHDOGS]

I dont like to get into the climate change debate as people are religious on what they believe either way, however my thoughts are that for man to assume they cant affect the weather is ludicrous we can pave the world with roads knock down entire forests clear most of the amazon but hey the weather nope cant change that! its all about silly really.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by glimmerman

And anyone who thinks global warming is a gimmick - is an absolute moron. Is been acknowledged, it's been proven and all sides of science have acknowledged it, there is no longer a debate about is it real, science has accepted it. For anyone who doesn't know how it works which is every person who says it isn't real, green house gases trap heat in our atmosphere and prevent it leaving, we have been lucky that our oceans have stored carbon, our deserts have stored carbon but it's at the point now it's too much and is preventing the suns heat from leaving the atmosphere so everything between the surface and atmosphere gets warmer.
Carbon has built up that much now arid deserts are starting to support plant life. Maybe we get lucky, plants thrive in areas they didn't, through photosyntheses they start removing more carbon, but the odds are low.

And THAT folks is an example of what our nancyboy education system is filling our youngs noggins with!.. Propaganda and tripe..
Honestly.. This brainwashing unsubstantiated hogwash really gives me the *****!
Glimmerman.. Someone above called you a hypocrite..
Some truth in that I reckon, going by your sig??

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

I dont like to get into the climate change debate as people are religious on what they believe either way, however my thoughts are that for man to assume they cant affect the weather is ludicrous we can pave the world with roads knock down entire forests clear most of the amazon but hey the weather nope cant change that! its all about silly really.

I agree to an extent that its arrogant for mankind to believe they have the power of God to be able to change the planet, but most of the evidence shows that over the last few centuries we have poo-poo'd the planet so badly that it is now having a detrimental effect. Global warming is real, but whether we caused it or not is another issue. The effects of global warming are very real too.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by Rodge

What are you guys paying per kilowatt hour on average ?

Vic, 12. something plus gst off peak and double that for peak. About 80 cents supply per day.

[karj]

Originally Posted by monte.b

Well im a moron,cause its a load of rubbish to keep the scientists in a job ,but so are you ,the tax is on co2 which is carbon dioxide, not carbon

Without wanting to wade too far into this debate, just to clarify...

The tax is not on CO2, nor is it on carbon - it is on carbon dioxide equivalent emissions (and it's not really a simple tax either). CO2 is used as the reference point to standardise measurements when calculating the impact of greenhouse gases.

That most people do not realise this fundamental fact makes it really clear to me that there has been a massive failure to communicate the scientific process and science generally, and this failure to communicate has led to an environment where people believe absolute nonsense (like climate change is just a big conspiracy to "keep the scientists in a job").

"Carbon Tax" or "Carbon Pricing" or "Carbon Pollution Reduction Schemes" are inadequate and inaccurate descriptors. Emissions trading is a much more accurate term.

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by monte.b

Well im a moron,cause its a load of rubbish to keep the scientists in a job ,but so are you ,the tax is on co2 which is carbon dioxide, not carbon

Wrong
It taxes other carbon compounds, such as methane and AirCon gas, which has a multiplier tax component in it to give it a greenhouse gas CO2 equivalent.

[zilo]

Luckily a lot of the opinions here are just light internet entertainment.

Since most of the skeptics here are from people that haven't been further than around the block in terms of life experience.

[Spurious]

With many, many billions of automobiles & factories pumping noxious & poison gas into the atmosphere, if you think that DOESN'T have an effect on the planet the YOU are a moron. For the past 200 odd years we humans have released everything into the earth, oceans & atmosphere with the knowledge that we have the sound ability to "ignore it". This planet is already screwed, we just havn't realized that yet & we won't while super powered economies can make money off the problem. Governments will sell us all oxygen soon enough, then they'll up the price of that too, 'til we can't afford it, die & there's no-one left to breath it. Then & only then we humans will realize we can't eat & breath money! Has anyone given thought that all the people going solar also contribute to the cost of electricity going up. Fact is, if you have sufficient panels on your house & your gain out weighs your usage then power producers pay you. Plus what's the environmental cost of making solar panels? I'm just thankful I don't drive an electric car after my last bill!

[GASWAGON]

Well electric cars are for another debate ar'nt they ..... because Toyota Prius batteries are made in China....One of the biggest polluters on the entire planet!

[glimmerman]

Originally Posted by monte.b

Well im a moron,cause its a load of rubbish to keep the scientists in a job ,but so are you ,the tax is on co2 which is carbon dioxide, not carbon

The tax is stupid anyway, if they want business to invest in green technology don't penalise them for pollution that is nobody's fault, give them tax cuts and incentives for going greener.