B triples coming to a Hume near you....

[JR.]

SMH article quotes NSW Roads Minister Duncan Gay as saying it's not going to happen before 2014 anyway, so another politically motivated beat-up...

[AlbertM]

B-triples have the trailers sitting on each other sharing the load between them

Road trains tow a dolly trailer to connect the trailers.




As long as they stay on dual carraige ways I have no problem with them running any number of trailers.

Length and mass is hardly any different to trucks drafting each other down the Hume.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by a-total-tool

Stupid n00b question here... What's the difference between a B-Triple and a Road Train? I thought that they were one and the same

Put simply.
A triple road train consists of a prime mover, a standard trailer, a dolly, another trailer, another dolly and another trailer

A B triple is a prime mover, two lead (A) trailers and a B trailer.

Like chalk and cheese.

Edit. My bloody phone rang while I was typing and Albert answerd the question first. Sorry.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by a-total-tool

Stupid n00b question here... What's the difference between a B-Triple and a Road Train? I thought that they were one and the same

This is a good site to get an idea of what is what....has pictures to..

http://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/USING...iguration.aspx

And....

http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/freig...tion/index.asp

[poppa smurf]

Hah! you blokes are piddling yourselves over these vehicles running on a dual carriageway

come out here where we do battle with quads on single rough as guts roads....

you will be fine, the big nasty truck driver and his really big truck will leave most of you alone.....if not then get out of his lane!

[Trevor 57]

As an aside, I think they will run Super B-Doubles before B-Triples in Victoria at least, there are more and more of them getting around, yeah I know most are at the Ports, but the Department of Transport prefers them as opposed to B-Triples, they reckon the average punter wouldn't notice a longer B-Double but MIGHT notice a B-Triple.

Steer -> bogie (or tri) -> quad -> quad (or tri) - (2 X 40 footers)

[Itsme]

Let them on dual carriage ways, not much different to a B.Double, Ford was running these between Broadmeadows and Geelong.

Here is a link to some facts about B Triples.....http://www.ntc.gov.au/filemedia/bull...tworkJul07.pdf

[PHATXR8]

Originally Posted by trublu

Let them on dual carriage ways, not much different to a B.Double, Ford was running these between Broadmeadows and Geelong.

Here is a link to some facts about B Triples.....http://www.ntc.gov.au/filemedia/bull...tworkJul07.pdf

Interesting that the fact sheet states that there is a 22% reductuion in operating costs. This will ultimately reduce rates paid to road transport operators in the future by a considerable amount, thereby further squeezing the industry's small profity margins even more. Interesting times ahead in the road transport industry.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

Interesting that the fact sheet states that there is a 22% reductuion in operating costs. This will ultimately reduce rates paid to road transport operators in the future by a considerable amount, thereby further squeezing the industry's small profity margins even more. Interesting times ahead in the road transport industry.

Absolutely correct!!!

[nstg8a]

Lol, double drivers sook enough now when they're trying to pull their curtains fast enough to keep with up our yard forklift, they're gonna cry if they end up bringing in triples some time in the future.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Lol, double drivers sook enough now when they're trying to pull their curtains fast enough to keep with up our yard forklift, they're gonna cry if they end up bringing in triples some time in the future.

Are you familiar with Newton’s third law of motion?

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Comments like this aren’t sensible or needed, just like my comments about inept forklift drivers aren’t needed.

[trentski]

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

Interesting that the fact sheet states that there is a 22% reductuion in operating costs. This will ultimately reduce rates paid to road transport operators in the future by a considerable amount, thereby further squeezing the industry's small profity margins even more. Interesting times ahead in the road transport industry.

if a say $100 reduction in operating costs leads to a $100 reduction in rates, doesn't the profit stay the same?

[MrEL]

Originally Posted by sleek7

Mmmm ok, so in the news clip on the article page where they show a B double that crossed onto the wrong side of the freeway and killed 3 people in that little red car....that was the car drivers fault huh?

That driver was ripped to the tits and was a repeat offender.
The type of truck was in no way to blame.
The driver of that truck would of been a disaster on the road driving a frigging mini.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by a-total-tool

Stupid n00b question here... What's the difference between a B-Triple and a Road Train? I thought that they were one and the same

It's the method of coupling , B doubles and triples use turntables and track perfectly ( NO sway ) behind the trailer they are connected to .

[dieseltrain79]

1 bad truck driver makes mistakes and costs lives , all of a sudden everyone is pointing at all truck drivers and trucks .....

How about all the fatalities and accidents caused by car drivers .. Us truck drivers don't jump on public forums and flame the crap out of them and their cars .

I mean , it's far easier for people to commute on trains and reduce road tolls and accidents , than it is for the freight industry to use trains or any other means of transporting cargo around the country .

I see that many cars that can't keep in 1 lane , and a double that has maybe 6 inches each side who does ...

These Triples will only be used from depot to depot. Main roads and arterial highways would most likely be used for the majority of their travels .

And that's great ! Trucks carry this country , without us it stops ! Simple really .

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by dieseltrain79

1 bad truck driver makes mistakes and costs lives , all of a sudden everyone is pointing at all truck drivers and trucks .....

The problem is that there are quite a few bad drivers, not the majority but enough to make a difference.

Originally Posted by MrEL

That driver was ripped to the tits and was a repeat offender.

By comparison you won't find a single train driver who is ripped to the tits and a repeat offender. A professional driver in any industry is a professional driver and no transport industry can afford to have less than 100% professionalism. Except the road transport industry it seems.

In this particular issue I find it fascinating that the European road transport industry, beside which the Australian one is tiny peanuts, gets by with single semi-trailers - no B doubles let along B triples. Is it a case of not being able to find enough drivers here, or saving paying for more drivers?

The industry is not exactly going to the wall in Europe (also the major freight carrier there) in spite of being more controlled.

[Gobes32]

My 2 cents worth......... I believe the Government would be looking at the environmental benefits (?) of this also, as 2 B Triples can do the work of 3 B Doubles, eliminating one truck and all the pollution that comes with it. As usual, no one cares about the impact on jobs, so long as Mr Fox makes his couple of mill a week. Also as to the B Triple "licensing", inside of Ford it was seen as a very prestigious thing to have the right to drive them as only Ford's best drivers were selected to do the training. This was 20 years ago though so who knows what has changed since the move to CEVA.

[Agent86]

A B-Triple is an extra 'A' trailer on the front of a b-double.

a road train can take many forms, see attatched link for more clarification
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train

[dieseltrain79]

Originally Posted by new2ford

The problem is that there are quite a few bad drivers, not the majority but enough to make a difference.


By comparison you won't find a single train driver who is ripped to the tits and a repeat offender. A professional driver in any industry is a professional driver and no transport industry can afford to have less than 100% professionalism. Except the road transport industry it seems.

In this particular issue I find it fascinating that the European road transport industry, beside which the Australian one is tiny peanuts, gets by with single semi-trailers - no B doubles let along B triples. Is it a case of not being able to find enough drivers here, or saving paying for more drivers?

The industry is not exactly going to the wall in Europe (also the major freight carrier there) in spite of being more controlled.

Umm , there is a bad apple in every industry mate . And yes including the transport industry . All I know is I'm 110% professional and that's all I can control .

And I feel safe that my company does numerous random drug & alcohol checks weekly !

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by new2ford

The problem is that there are quite a few bad drivers, not the majority but enough to make a difference.

I think you need to step back alittle from that comment, you are referring to a 'interstate' driver or long distance driver, they only account for less that 15% of all freight movement within Australia, but comparison of all freight moved they are a mere speck but tend to attract all the attention. it is a relic from the 70's when the interstate game was not a good place to be

Originally Posted by new2ford

By comparison you won't find a single train driver who is ripped to the tits and a repeat offender.

Are you absolutely sure about that, I know for a fact that that is not the case, the only difference is that the media don't get hold of the information, plus it is pretty hard for a train driver to do much damage stuck on tracks and has all the traffic controls in his favour.

Originally Posted by new2ford

A professional driver in any industry is a professional driver and no transport industry can afford to have less than 100% professionalism.

I would agree with that, but why do truck drivers have to put up totally unprofessional car drivers as the truck drivers go about their daily job. Does the general public impact on your daily work routine anywhere near as much as truck drivers have theirs impacted by the general public, and what are the chances of the Police or Vicroads targetting you 24/7 in your workplace?

Originally Posted by new2ford

In this particular issue I find it fascinating that the European road transport industry, beside which the Australian one is tiny peanuts, gets by with single semi-trailers - no B doubles let along B triples.

A really bad example, everyone with any sort of knowledge of the transport industry knows that Australia has the biggest distances between drops, no-where else in the civilised world do truck drivers have to encounter the tyrany of distance like Aussie truckies, in fact most the worlds leading truck builders use Australia as a test bed for their products. And as aside, it is well known that driver licencing standards are far greater in most European countries both for car drivers and for truck drivers. I think our people do a great job, they have to put with mostly uneducated car drivers, bosses who are trying to rip them off at every chance and a regulatory system set up to crucify them

Originally Posted by new2ford

Is it a case of not being able to find enough drivers here, or saving paying for more drivers?

There is a chronic shortage of drivers in Australia, the average age is in the mid-50's, WHY, under-paid is the biggest single issue, $15-18 per hour on average, would you work for that, bosses trying to rip them off, unsafe workplaces and "and a regulatory system set up to crucify them"

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Are you absolutely sure about that, I know for a fact that that is not the case, the only difference is that the media don't get hold of the information, plus it is pretty hard for a train driver to do much damage stuck on tracks and has all the traffic controls in his favour.

Train drivers are pretty much nailed by their system before they can get out and do any grief. The "safeworking" (read compliance with road rules/protocols) is also tightly controlled.

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

A really bad example, everyone with any sort of knowledge of the transport industry knows that Australia has the biggest distances between drops, no-where else in the civilised world do truck drivers have to encounter the tyrany of distance like Aussie truckies,

Total myth, take a look at how big Europe is. Typical long distance journeys are equivalent to Sydney-Melbourne or Melbourne-Brisbane. One tiny example - French Renaults built in Rumania, delivered to Germany or France, a couple of thousand Ks. Maximum 90 km/h and all the other rest regulations etc. Time is money there too but the industry doesn't go to the wall without extra trailers on the trucks. No there's another agenda here.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Train drivers are pretty much nailed by their system before they can get out and do any grief. The "safeworking" (read compliance with road rules/protocols) is also tightly controlled.

every system can be by-passed. I can almost gaurentee that road is far more heavily regulated, the big difference between the 2 is that rail is "self" regulated and road isn't to the same degree

Originally Posted by new2ford

Total myth, take a look at how big Europe is. Typical long distance journeys are equivalent to Sydney-Melbourne or Melbourne-Brisbane. One tiny example - French Renaults built in Rumania, delivered to Germany or France, a couple of thousand Ks. Maximum 90 km/h and all the other rest regulations etc. Time is money there too but the industry doesn't go to the wall without extra trailers on the trucks. No there's another agenda here.

read my statment again, I said between drops, you talk about the common routes, what about the less common, like Melbourne to Darwin, Melbourne to Perth, Melbourne to Cairns, Brisbane to Darwin. Australia is far bigger than the east coast.

On the Melbourne to Brisbane run AND return, have very done it week in week out or just once or twice on holiday where you can do it at you leisure without some boss hammering your **** every 100k's or have some time-slot to meet at the other end.

Also something you forgot to mention in your European example was 2-up driving, most rigs over there run with 2 drivers sharing the load, it is quite uncommon here, it does happen, but not that much

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

The way that last rear trailer on these things wanders all over the road is scary..... We have them out here all over the place and they are OK as there is stuff all traffic on the hiways.

Perhaps you should remove that kitten in your avatar, it seems to be blocking your thinking process.

As others have said, you DON'T have them up there. What you're probably confusing them with is a B-Double with a regular trailer behind or in front of it

Queenslanders like to call them B-Triples, but really they are a B-Double road train.... like the one below.

Regular Trailer up front, B-Double behind the Dolly, it's the Dolly that will cause the swing

[kevino]

How does the driver of a B triple judge distance?
After overtaking a car say doing 97 and the B triple doing say 100 how does the B triple driver judge the back of his unit and pull back into the left lane.

If the brakes are applied very hard on a B triple for an emergency stop how does the B triple pull up> In a straight line?

How do we avoid Btriple drivers tailgating cars with what 80 tonne gross?

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by kevino

How does the driver of a B triple judge distance?
After overtaking a car say doing 97 and the B triple doing say 100 how does the B triple driver judge the back of his unit and pull back into the left lane.

Experience, remember triple road trains are much longer and those drivers have been managing overtaking slow caravaners for years

Originally Posted by kevino

If the brakes are applied very hard on a B triple for an emergency stop how does the B triple pull up> In a straight line?

very straight, i was involved with the testing of them at Mangalore air field many years ago before they we allowed on Victorian roads, they did lots of testing, emergency lane changes, emergency stops, they perform very very good

Originally Posted by kevino

How do we avoid Btriple drivers tailgating cars with what 80 tonne gross?

Maybe ring CEVA, they (and Ford before them) have been running them for over 15 years, they are not new, they will be running freeway to freeway to depot. How do truck drivers stop stupid car drivers darting in front of them at traffic lights then jamming on the brakes would be a far better question, how do you stop idiot car drivers taking a miminum space in a lane change manoeuvre on a freeway in peak hour traffic. If a truck is tailgating you, you do have the option of pulling off the road and letting them continue on their merry way

Far too many people get paranoid about trucks being close behind them, remember the driver is experienced, they are probably looking to overtake, they need a lot more room than a car to overtake. I think too many have watched the film 'Duel' - LOL

[Myoldhk]

Who cares they've been going up Melbourne road for years for fords.
They still have road restrictions.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by kevino

How does the driver of a B triple judge distance?
After overtaking a car say doing 97 and the B triple doing say 100 how does the B triple driver judge the back of his unit and pull back into the left lane.

If the brakes are applied very hard on a B triple for an emergency stop how does the B triple pull up> In a straight line?

How do we avoid Btriple drivers tailgating cars with what 80 tonne gross?

Experience for the driver.

If I had a B Triple, B Double or Road Train overtaking me I would slow down to make the process quicker for them and give them a flash of the headlights when clear.... a sign of common courtesy for these trucks....
I have been thanked numerous times for this gesture.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by trentski

if a say $100 reduction in operating costs leads to a $100 reduction in rates, doesn't the profit stay the same?

No no no, that’s what the boffin’s in government want you to believe. The reality is, none of your costs will ever go down.

In business, the bigger the business, the higher the operating costs.

The simple fact is that they will cost more to operate, they will raise more income but the income will not necessarily cancel out the increase in operating costs.

A very wise man once said, “you can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of all people know that.”

For example: Some knucklehead at the NTC thought that it would be a great idea to near triple the cost of registration for “A” or lead trailers. This would never have worked in the long term and they ended up back-pedalling mid way through 2012 to significantly reduce this unnecessary burden. They just ended up raising the cost of rego for rigid trucks instead.

Rego on an interstate B double is already around $16,000 a year. A B triple will be over $20,000.

Look at it in fixed and variable costs.

You are adding another A or lead trailer. You are limited to the amount of freight you can carry, whether it be cubic or maximum weight.

In affect, the increased cost of registration, the higher insurance, operating costs for tyres and maintenance would hardly make it a viable option. That’s before you even get into the cost of compliance.

Compliance, the big $$$ killer. It will be highly unlikely that anyone operating one of these will be able to drive straight out of their depot and into another depot at the other end. So someone else will most likely have to take one of the trailers to an approved hook up point somewhere near the Hume highway, at either end. So you have to buget for another truck and driver to bring part of the combination into the dept. depending on how far that is, will well and truly kill the profit made with the extra A (lead) trailer.

Remember, it’s local councils that have the say on what local roads these vehicles will be allowed on, not Vicroads or the RMS.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

every system can be by-passed. I can almost gaurentee that road is far more heavily regulated, the big difference between the 2 is that rail is "self" regulated and road isn't to the same degree

No I don't think so. There is also an independent rail regulator.

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

read my statment again, I said between drops, you talk about the common routes, what about the less common, like Melbourne to Darwin, Melbourne to Perth, Melbourne to Cairns, Brisbane to Darwin. Australia is far bigger than the east coast.

But where are the great majority of journeys? I haven't checked but I wouldn't be surprised if there were more road deliveries between Russia and the Atlantic countries than all Australian freight combined. Bound to be when comparing a continent of 20 million people with one of over 700 million people.

[MercurySilver]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

As an aside, I think they will run Super B-Doubles before B-Triples in Victoria at least, there are more and more of them getting around, yeah I know most are at the Ports, but the Department of Transport prefers them as opposed to B-Triples, they reckon the average punter wouldn't notice a longer B-Double but MIGHT notice a B-Triple.

Steer -> bogie (or tri) -> quad -> quad (or tri) - (2 X 40 footers)


image

wow
i load doubles with 2 containers, or big singles with a 40foot container but ive never seen four singles
looks awesome