Going Too Slow Accident Prosecution

[aussiblue]

Change from right lane to left lane
Speed up
Pull off the road

Not always possible; single lane or already in LH lane, already doing or exceeding speed limit, no place to (or legally) pull over.

I (well my car) was once attacked by a tailgater for refusing to be bullied. Some 20 years ago, I was travelling home south on the Kwinana Freeway doing the speed limit in the LH lane with no traffic in the right hand lane. Late Friday evening. The offender in beat up and rusty Holden ute followed me for several km less that .5m from my bumper flashing his lights and tooting his horn. Eventually I slowed and he passed me cutting across my nose . I found him waiting at the South Street off ramp where the Freeway finished in those days and he got out of the car punched my windows (when I locked my doors and refused to get out and let him " punch my lights out") then kicked the doors and sill damaging my car. A witness to the attack and the tail gating (he was following us) with me reported the matter at the nearest police station. The officer at the desk looked up the car rego details and then refused to give me these details explaining that the offender was "a known very violent criminal" and if I tried to recover cost of repairs or otherwise contact him, he would likely assault me or worse. The Police also said this was a not infrequent Friday night road rage issue with violent drunks and on that on the previous Friday someone in almost identical circumstances had put an axe through the other driver's roof.

I had one similar incident (again in LH lane doing the speed limit) one morning on the Kwinana where the offender eventually passed me and then swerved across onto my lane deliberately me pushing me off the road. Again there was a witness, or I gather witnesses (who reported it independent from me - I hadn't as I was too shaken to remember the rego). The Police contacted me to see if the offender was known to me or if I knew any other reason or preceding incident that might have initiated his tailgating and subsequent action, and my willingness to attend court if required. The police indicated they were proceeding with charges but I was not required to go to court so I assume he pleaded guilty.

So in both cases:
Already in LH lane;
Already doing the speed limit;
No place to legally pull over.

In the second case there was also traffic in front of me so even exceeding the limit wasn't an option unless I was also prepared to tail gate. It was early morning rush hour.

The fact is tailgaters are just another type of bully.

[Bonn]

In your case, i'd have to agree - but extreme examples of fruitloops - my wife has had a similar thing happen with a Toyota dual cab AFTER she'd overtaken him, not overtaken then slowed down, but overtaken and kept at the higher speed - nutcases!!

Disagree slightly with Tailgaters being bullies across the board - on freeways, we all try to be tolerant and may even just put (lowbeam) headlights on, but some people will just NOT get over, which is what impedes other drivers' use of the road.

[aussiblue]

Disagree slightly with Tailgaters being bullies across the board

Sorry but I believe across the board tailgaters are bullies; their behaviour is all about trying to induce a change in the other driver 's on road behaviour through intimidation.

[Bonn]

Understand your point, but the driver getting tailgated may be in urgent need of an induced change in their on-road behaviour, if they are effing-over everyone behind them, by driving unacceptably slow, or blocking an overtaking lane.
People want to 'get on with it', not reduce theirs and everyone behind them's speed unnecessarily - that's when the car behind becomes part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.
I find - on a single lane road - if i have someone impatient behind me, putting the left blinker on, moving to the left of the lane and slowing down does the trick - they go 'round, as they think i am turning off. It works.

[aussiblue]

Flashing headlights is the accepted, polite and safe protocol to indicate to a vehicle in front that you want to pass. Tailgating is dangerous bullying.

[Bonn]

Agree, but some still jam the brakes on for flashing - most don't, but there's allsorts out there!

[aussiblue]

One of the issues of course is a lot of slow drivers will believe they are at the speed limit due to speedo inaccuracies. Many you see are in older vehicles that not only have worn and less accurate speedometers, but some will have also changed to lower profile tyres (at the age extreme from crossplies to radials) exacerbating their speedo under-reading error. Then we have the impatient tailgating group who are probably using a satnav system to very accurately measure their speed while others even in new cars have an indicated speed at least 5km/hr less.

The worrying thing is the tailgaters are often in heavy bullbar equipped 4WDs- did they buy them just so they could better bully other road users?

[Bonn]

Good point (bullbars, tools in 4WDs etc)
it's alarming how many motorists are frightened of exceeding the speed limit by a couple of kms - that's frustrating (especially in NSW) when you know +10km will not land you in the poop, on a 90, 100 or 110km road

[aussiblue]

Where I currently find the most common tailgating issue is on the Roe Freeway (that I have cause to use most Saturdays) where the existing 100 km/hr speed limit has been reduced to 80 km/hr and in some places 60 km/hr for roadworks. It seems some drivers think everyone should still do 100 km/hr and tailgate dangerously close when they don't (or perhaps they rely on the limits on their satnav rather than on the posted signs).

I do agree it is not helped when roadworks speed reductions are sometimes unnecessarily left in place on weekends and public holidays in WA when no work is in progress but this is not the case with the Roe albeit that level of roadwork activity on Saturday is less than during the week.

[aussiblue]

All driver were found not guilty by the jury. Just on TV nowe. So I guess that means the Suzuki driver was at fault.

[aussiblue]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/...r-death-crash/

Drivers cleared over death crash

Tim Clarke January 28, 2015, 5:33 pm

Drivers cleared over death crash
Emergency services at the crash scene. Picture: Simon Santi/The West Australian

Two men charged over the death over a teenager in a chain reaction of collisions after an alleged tailgaiting incident have been cleared by a jury.

Robert David Allan had pleaded not guilty to dangerous driving causing the death of Jesse Phillis, 17, on Watkins Road, Mundijong, on June 23, 2013.

Blair James Annandale faced a joint trial on the same charge for failing to pay proper attention when he hit the rear of the car in which Jesse was a passenger.

Prosecutors had claimed Mr Allan had deliberately slowed his white Mitsubishi van from 70km/h to 40km/h in frustration at a red Suzuki, in which Jesse was a passenger, being too close behind his car.

Mr Annandale then crashed into the car, causing it to spin into another car travelling in the opposite direction.

The State alleged there was “absolutely no reason” other than Mr Allan's frustration at being tailgated for him slowing down.

But lawyers for both men denied their driving had been dangerous - and after three hours deliberations, the jury agreed and acquitted both men.

Neither man, nor family of Mr Phillis, commented outside court.

[Bonn]

Hope the van driver can live with himself.....................

[Dash_XR]

So what's the message? The law condones brake testing people?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

So what's the message? The law condones brake testing people?

Maybe they found 3 lots of idiotic behavior has caused the death of a passenger
and another person who will have to live with killing someone.

[Bonn]

Possibly.
The road's no place to play games.

[Dash_XR]

They shouldn't cancel each other out though, even if they are all at fault he still was the spark that set it all off.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bonn

Possibly.
The road's no place to play games.

Very true.
Anything can happen when all seems perfectly fine.

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

They shouldn't cancel each other out though, even if they are all at fault he still was the spark that set it all off.

I bet there was no real evidence to prove anything. But I find it funny when one of these threads comes up (kind of like a anti cyclist thread) that there are people who think its a black and white situation. When your on the road you have to be aware whats going on and you have to be ready to react in a split second.
The person tailgating is as big a moron as the person who brake checks the vehicle. What about had the front car broken down. Or braked suddenly because something jumped out in front of them? If the person in front of you is slow overtake them at the next safest point. Simple.
Also people who sit on their mobile phones when driving (especially texting).....seriously your not that important of a person....your just a ******.

[EgoFG]

I think the lesson is - do not hit other cars, no matter what they are playing at.
and: If two other cars are playing sillybuggrz, get away from them.

But also: If you are not at fault, and are going to have damage, make sure it involves the guy who caused the mayhem in the first place

In this instance the latter is not possible.


It seems to me that the Tailgater was actually sufficiently behind the brake tester, but Car three was too close to the tailgater.

I think the Jury saw that the Brake Tester, and the Tailgater were the "pub rules" cause of the accident, so overlooked the literal interpretation of the law.

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Very true.
Anything can happen when all seems perfectly fine.



I bet there was no real evidence to prove anything. But I find it funny when one of these threads comes up (kind of like a anti cyclist thread) that there are people who think its a black and white situation. When your on the road you have to be aware whats going on and you have to be ready to react in a split second.
The person tailgating is as big a moron as the person who brake checks the vehicle. What about had the front car broken down. Or braked suddenly because something jumped out in front of them? If the person in front of you is slow overtake them at the next safest point. Simple.
Also people who sit on their mobile phones when driving (especially texting).....seriously your not that important of a person....your just a ******.

Yeah fair enough, he said a dog jumped out or something I guess. I work allot on the road, I'd see more idiots in a day then you probably would in year haha. People just don't care and think they are Mike Tyson when they are safely cocooned in their car.

[Bonn]

..ain't that the truth.
I'm sure some think it's a big video game......

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bonn

..ain't that the truth.
I'm sure some think it's a big video game......

I dunno. I just think people are conditioned to drive a car in a certain way and not actually look at what the hell is going on around them and the danger they put themselves and everyone else in.

But you get that when govco drum in one message to the masses and not actually teach people that stuff happens and you need to be ready for it.
There are times when reducing your speed is smarter but there are times when going quicker then the speed limit can actually reduce an incident.

There will always be idiots on the road...you just hope they write themselves off and not hurt/kill innocent people.

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by vztrt

I dunno. I just think people are conditioned to drive a car in a certain way and not actually look at what the hell is going on around them and the danger they put themselves and everyone else in.

But you get that when govco drum in one message to the masses and not actually teach people that stuff happens and you need to be ready for it.
There are times when reducing your speed is smarter but there are times when going quicker then the speed limit can actually reduce an incident.

There will always be idiots on the road...you just hope they write themselves off and not hurt/kill innocent people.

Agree with that, you can even tell that some people have never lost control in the wet for example cause they drive like its still dry. Clearly oblivious to how easy you can loose grip in a split second.

[aussiblue]

And then there is this; we have it all in WA http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/wa...29-131h49.html

WA Mad Max-style highway shooter 'shows no remorse'

Date January 29, 2015 - 4:45PM 44 reading now

A West Australian driver who shot at another motorist in a Mad Max-type incident along an isolated South Australian highway has shown no remorse, a judge has been told.

His evidence that the other motorist was a creep who ruined his perfect holiday and "then rings up triple-zero like a baby" reflected his general attitude, said prosecutor Genevieve Spencer.

Michael Craig Anderson, 53, from Perth, was found guilty in July 2014 of attempted murder over the road-rage attack on Zeph Walsh on the Eyre Highway between Kimba and Iron Knob the previous July.

Mr Walsh told the jury of accelerating to 180km/h in a desperate bid to escape Anderson, who had tailgated and collided with his car, before firing shots at him.

In triple-zero calls, the terrified victim says, "Oh my God, this guy is shooting at me", "I need help, I need help", and "I am really scared".

In a Supreme Court sentence hearing on Thursday, Ms Spencer said even though Anderson later apologised for calling Mr Walsh "a creep", his evidence reflected his attitude to the crime for which he had shown no remorse.

While the offending was spontaneous, she said it was aggravated by Anderson endangering the lives of other road-users while driving at high speed and his use of a firearm.

Defence lawyer Brian Deegan said his client maintained that he had no intention to kill Mr Walsh and that he fired his .357 and Wesson Magnum revolver down at the road not at the other driver.

But Anderson accepted he had made a "shockingly poor call" in producing the weapon in an incident which Mr Deegan described as "one of the most extraordinary cases I have dealt with over the years".

"He does inform me he is totally regretful of this situation," he said.

He asked Justice John Sulman not to impose a crushing sentence.

Mr Walsh previously told the court he had become a recluse who no longer drove on the highway and still had nightmares.

He said that after the ordeal no one really understood what he was going through and people approached him referring to the movie Mad Max and to the wild west.

Anderson will be sentenced on a later date.

[Road_Warrior]

Hope the knob gets put away for a while too.