Best Engine Offered In Australian Car?

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

Fair enough, I just thought I would bring it up because when I was out with Dad 2 days ago, we parked next to some sort of Valiant car with a Hemi 6 and he started talking about it. Is it expensive to build one to E49 spec?

The engine build would not be much more expensive than a standard build, the money would come from trying to find the right Weber set-up. people who try to take shortcuts have endless problems, the original items were no problem. You could get the top end power with a four barrel set-up but the bottom end torque that the correct Weber set-up produces is awesome.

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I think the thing that made the chrysler 6's feel powerful was the fact that they were in light weight mid sized cars. The chryslers were over 230kg's lighter than a Falcon.
I do agree tho, the clevo was the pick of the bunch!

I had a 351 Cleveland in standard Tune & afterwards with some Mods & can tell you it Killed the odd Charger that was about at the time & yes we did Race often back then :P

A Mate of Mine used to Drive his Dads late Model Valiant (last series) with a 265 Hemi six & again the Clevo would leave him & all other local sixes for dead.

Though I do remember sitting on 200 k's in his Dad's Valiant while listening to a whoosh sound sort of like a vacume cleaner coming from exhaust.

The 308 Heavily worked HQ Monaro I had before the GXL would also kill the Charger boys. (even if they had Mods like triple Carbs & high lift Cam)

Yes the special Race Models were very quick but then you would need to compare them with a GTHO phase 3 to be fair & not your standard family hack.

As for these days I agree the Ford Turbo 6 would be the best by a small margin over the current holden V8.

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Of coarse they blueprinted the engines, gearboxes diffs etc... blueprinting is just ensuring exact factory tolerances are met, its not modifying it though, all the stock parts are used.

I always had my Rebuilt Engines Balanced as I Loved the extra Revs you could get & the smoothness at high Revs compared to non balanced engines.

My HQ would rev to 7000 rpm & it used to often with me driving it :P

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by nugget378

A stock XY could'nt even get anywhere near that speed on an unlimited highway, let alone conrod straight..

stock phase 3 gtho 144 mph from memory.

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

stock phase 3 gtho 144 mph from memory.

(231.696 km/h), thats pretty damn fast for a car from 1971.

[galaxy xr8]

How do we actually know what the GTHO III was capable of as the speedo only went to 140mph, and many a people have witnessed them reading of the dial,
I've allways heard them as being 140mph +.....

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

How do we actually know what the GTHO III was capable of as the speedo only went to 140mph, and many a people have witnessed them reading of the dial,
I've allways heard them as being 140mph +.....

Quite a few variables... depending on diff ratio and whether the rev limiter was connected or not, pretty sure French had a topspeed in 72 of about 154 mph...
Its amazing watching footage of 71 and 72 and how much faster the HO's were down conrod compared to the chargers and toranas, about 20-30mph faster, they'd drive past them like they were standing still..

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Quite a few variables... depending on diff ratio and whether the rev limiter was connected or not, pretty sure French had a topspeed in 72 of about 154 mph...
Its amazing watching footage of 71 and 72 and how much faster the HO's were down conrod compared to the chargers and toranas, about 20-30mph faster, they'd drive past them like they were standing still..

They were brave men in those day's, doing speed's like that on skinny 6inch rim's, bugger all brakes, trying to pull up a 1500+kg vehicle down conrod, with sloppy suspension, they had their work cut out for them, I couldn't imagine what it would be like espcially with the tight 16:1 steering box across the top, lol.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

They were brave men in those day's, doing speed's like that on skinny 6inch rim's, bugger all brakes, trying to pull up a 1500+kg vehicle down conrod, with sloppy suspension, they had their work cut out for them, I couldn't imagine what it would be like espcially with the tight 16:1 steering box across the top, lol.

Yes.. crazy more like it! in 72 they had the 15 x 7 globe rims which made a big difference, but 154mph or 260kph is damn fast regardless!!

[CAT600]

Our later 4lt I6 engine gets my vote, both for performance and everyday use.

Everyday: Any 4 Lt built from mid-98 onwards.

- As blackers pointed out, all those taxis cant be wrong.

Performance: F6 spec turbo mill (meaning all F6 engines and all other Turbo engines from Jun06 onwards).

- Where else can you get an engine that can handle 380rwkw out of the box, that returns awesome fuel economy even when modded, drives like a stocker and has a huge spread of torque from 2500 rpm to 6000rpm.

Daniel

[nugget378]

Im sceptical about those claimed speeds, getting my XA approaching 250km/h the bonnet feels like it will rip right out of its hinges, and an XY is a less aerodynamic shape.
easy enough to work out though if someone posts diff ratio's and tyre sizes that they raced on while doing those claimed speeds.

If I was to pick the best engine it would have to be the aussie Ford 6, its been around for so long and over so many evolutions/updates, the engine that just keeps going..

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by GTP290

Ive been reading a lot lately about LS3,BOSS and turbo 6 engines, that got me thinking, what is the best engine ever offered in an Aussie car in terms of power,economy,reliability,low maintenance and cheap mod costs. Im leaning towards the LS2 and LS3 as it can be stroked to 7 litres and is cheap to modify, what do you guys think?

For those who are a little confused about the question... He's after a motor that can be all of the following.


...economical when driven sedately I would say most are quite good these days, but if you're too pedantic about fuel consumption catch the train, or get a push bike.



...but very powerful when modded on a budget. ....I6T.




...and reliable when belted, without alot of cost to maintenance. Does it have to last the distance in a production race, or a quarter mile? If it's for the quarter then the answer is the I6T. A worked NA V8 may do a little better around a track, judging by some previous posts re production cars. The Boss didn't do too bad last year in the Brute series.


I'll add one more prerequisite of my own. Sound; which comes down to personal preference in every case, but it's something that would sway me in the end. Which leaves me to say the Boss would be my pick. Even with it's ridiculous bore spacing it manages to pump a decent amount of specific power, as well as being able to muster it (in stock form) with the LS3. Also being able to match the VE in the ute series doesn't reflect alot of the "it can't handle with a Boss" sentiments dished out at it.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

They were brave men in those day's, doing speed's like that on skinny 6inch rim's, bugger all brakes, trying to pull up a 1500+kg vehicle down conrod, with sloppy suspension, they had their work cut out for them, I couldn't imagine what it would be like espcially with the tight 16:1 steering box across the top, lol.

Think about the bike racers. AJ once told me that after the hump in the straight on the factory racebikes the rise over the hump would tankslap them so bad it blurred their vision so much they would just count after the hump so many numbers before hitting the brakes. And even way back when they would have been pull some mega speeds down that straight.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Im sceptical about those claimed speeds, getting my XA approaching 250km/h the bonnet feels like it will rip right out of its hinges, and an XY is a less aerodynamic shape.
easy enough to work out though if someone posts diff ratio's and tyre sizes that they raced on while doing those claimed speeds.

If I was to pick the best engine it would have to be the aussie Ford 6, its been around for so long and over so many evolutions/updates, the engine that just keeps going..

The Clevo motor is like Brock's special little box..Haha

The best street engine would be the 6 after all even the latest has similarities back to the 250 4.1..
The economy would be the bug bear with the 351C..
When considering road best engine...

[ehast13]

Which engine coped with pollution gear the best?

Hemi's got strangled

Clevo's died in the A$$

Holden six curled up in the fetal position and cried

Holden v8 forgot how to breathe above 3000rpm

Ford I6 coped just fine. A decent amount of dough was spent on them by ford aus I assume. By 1983 an efi 6 xe was quicker than the last of the 351's.

Obviously this is not a fair argument as ford spent more on the six than they spent on the clevo.

How could would a clevo have gone with honda developed alloy heads/manifolds with EECIV fuel injection set up?

[PALE ALE]

Originally Posted by mcnews

The engine build would not be much more expensive than a standard build, the money would come from trying to find the right Weber set-up. people who try to take shortcuts have endless problems, the original items were no problem. You could get the top end power with a four barrel set-up but the bottom end torque that the correct Weber set-up produces is awesome.

Dont expect much change out of $3500 for a triple weber set up ( carbs, manifold, linkages and filters). And I think you would find that the 4 barrell will match the webers for bottom end performance, but the webers will out flow the 4 barrell at top end

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

The Hemi 6 engine everyone seems to give good praise for it, whats so good about it compared to the Ford I6s of the time as an example? Not trying to be a smart ***, wanting to learn more

I don't think you can compare the standard Ford 6's of the time with the Hemi 6, because the standard Ford engines were just that, standard, whereas the Hemi was quite heavily modified. Ford had the 351 so they didn't need a performance 6.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I'll add one more prerequisite of my own. Sound; which comes down to personal preference in every case, but it's something that would sway me in the end. Which leaves me to say the Boss would be my pick. Even with it's ridiculous bore spacing it manages to pump a decent amount of specific power, as well as being able to muster it (in stock form) with the LS3. Also being able to match the VE in the ute series doesn't reflect alot of the "it can't handle with a Boss" sentiments dished out at it.

I agree mate, the BOSS 315 makes over 58kW/Litre...the latest hand-built factory tuned AMG block has 60kW/L. To compare the W427's 7.0L V8 makes 53kW/litre.

Plus, let's not forget the BOSS is essentially a truck engine with quad cams!

And then we have the wild howl coming on song from 3500rpm onwards which has become a BOSS trademark.

I think the guys at FPV should get some kind of award for their effort.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Citric GT

After having owned turbo and non-turbo ford sixes, an EL XR8, a Boss 290 in the GT and now an LS3 6.2 in the Clubsport, I'd have to say the LS3 is the go. It just goes so good any gear any revs. Love it.

It's a great engine.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by PALE ALE

Dont expect much change out of $3500 for a triple weber set up ( carbs, manifold, linkages and filters). And I think you would find that the 4 barrell will match the webers for bottom end performance, but the webers will out flow the 4 barrell at top end

Nup that's bollocks, the opposite is true, the four barrel will never match the bottom end pull of a proper Weber set-up but it will match it up top.
And 3.5k for a proper Weber set-up would be cheap as chips these days, 10 years ago maybe, an original proper Weber set-up these days if not completely cactus would easy command 5k +.

[ehast13]

BossXR8 - Even standard hemi sixes (245/265) easily bested the best ford six (250) of the time. The 250 2V was an improvment (170bhp gross) but the hemi 2 barrel was another 48 hp ahead again. Pacer 4 barrels extended the lead, e 38/e49 sealed the deal.

Ford didn't really mess with the idea of a real performance six until xr6. Holden produced some great examples of hot sixes but they they were just that ... hot sixes.

Standard family sedan spec (non performance) six cylinders the hemi was still ahead of the ford six in the seventies. Ford sixes were better than holden sixes in family sedan spec.

[PALE ALE]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Nup that's bollocks, the opposite is true, the four barrel will never match the bottom end pull of a proper Weber set-up but it will match it up top.
And 3.5k for a proper Weber set-up would be cheap as chips these days, 10 years ago maybe, an original proper Weber set-up these days if not completely cactus would easy command 5k +.

Holley 600= 600 cubic feet per minute
flowed two 45mm side draught webers on a redline adaptor= 740 cubic feet per minute, so three would flow over 1000 cfm
As for the Holley having the same throttle response as the webers, I dont know, I have never ran the webers, but as a guess I would think they could be better, because of the straight shot at the port
As for price, the two webers, manifold and linkage kit, cost $2000(webers were $800 each) So I reckon $3500 should cover triples on a hemi.
$5000 would be for quad down draughts on a V8

[mcnews]

Most tuners have always found that plain flow velocities aside nothing gives a hemi low down pull and torque like a set of Webers. Probably something to do with having individual runners and choke for each pot I imagine. I know the first time you jump in a Weber fed version down low and through to the mid-range the pull is awesome. I remember when Brocky participated in that group test with the HO, E49, A9X and all the latest muscle at the time like VN SS Group A, VL Walkinshaw I think from memory, EB GT etc. his quote on the E49 went something along the lines of 'torque wise it is like turning on a tap, you would think 5.8 litres would have it all over the comparatively small six off the bottom but the opposite is true'. It was the first time Brock had driven a Charger, his quotes above wouldn't be exact but are along the same lines.
Edit - This is a standard E49 set-up

[Wally]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Nup that's bollocks, the opposite is true, the four barrel will never match the bottom end pull of a proper Weber set-up but it will match it up top.
And 3.5k for a proper Weber set-up would be cheap as chips these days, 10 years ago maybe, an original proper Weber set-up these days if not completely cactus would easy command 5k +.

True, which is why DCOE's are the first thing you think of on engines like the L20b for rally use.

[ehast13]

the triples don't suffer from cylinder starvation. the air flow is nearly straight. correctly tuned the triples will be better but not necessarily easy to keep tuned

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Most tuners have always found that plain flow velocities aside nothing gives a hemi low down pull and torque like a set of Webers. Probably something to do with having individual runners and choke for each pot I imagine. I know the first time you jump in a Weber fed version down low and through to the mid-range the pull is awesome. I remember when Brocky participated in that group test with the HO, E49, A9X and all the latest muscle at the time like VN SS Group A, VL Walkinshaw I think from memory, EB GT etc. his quote on the E49 went something along the lines of 'torque wise it is like turning on a tap, you would think 5.8 litres would have it all over the comparatively small six off the bottom but the opposite is true'. It was the first time Brock had driven a Charger, his quotes above wouldn't be exact but are along the same lines.
Edit - This is a standard E49 set-up

Yeah your not wrong there, growing up with the Hemi 6's in the family they certainly were a potent little engine.Even the 245 Hemi Pacer would of been a match for my 351 GT.My youngest Bros has a E-49 spec 265 Hemi engine in his mint Pacer.He has been out a few times cruzing with some GT's and has spanked them in the performance race.It has also made a few stroked Clevo's look slow i think Auslandau may vouch for the power of the ol Hemi 6

[CAMS290]

Aint nothing like a 265 Hemi with a TO4 Garrett on it.
Pic is my 1977 CL Charger SE with a Wayne Mankhen built turbo set up.
CD Strombergs, water/metho injection, the days before intercooling, pumped out an easy 450 HP !

[HEMI POWER]

Luv your work Cam :sm_headba