Ban P Platers over Easter

[AWD Chaser]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226043814025

WORRIED drivers have turned on young road users, overwhelmingly backing a ban on P-platers getting behind the wheel during the dangerous holiday seasons.
A nationwide survey has found that 58 per cent of Australians would support laws banning P-plate drivers from the road on public holidays.
And drivers, polled by the Rail, Tram and Bus Union, also believe in zero-tolerance when it comes to boozing, saying alcohol should be out of bounds for all road users during holiday season.
With Australians worried about the safety of our roads, 79 per cent of respondents said they would use a dedicated high-speed rail network between Australia's capital cities during holiday periods if one were available.
Rail Tram and Bus Union national secretary Bob Nanva said the P-plate ban result was quite unexpected.

He said the union did not advocate a ban on P-platers, but said the results indicated that Australian road users wanted more transport options for holiday travel to reduce the road toll.

"While these results are surprising, they clearly indicate that the majority of Australians are still concerned about the safety of our roads and want governments to do more to reduce the toll," he said.

NSW Roads Minister Duncan Gay said he would not support a move to outlaw P-platers from driving during public holidays.

"Many of the P-platers might be going on holidays ... (or people) who travel to work," a spokesman for Mr Gay said.

But the spokesman said studies suggested that younger drivers were more prone than older drivers to have accidents on public holidays.

A NSW Police spokeswoman said the road toll in NSW so far this year was 98 fatal crashes, which had resulted in 108 deaths.

In 2010 the annual road toll in NSW was 382 crashes resulting in 422 deaths.

NRMA spokesman Peter Khoury said they would not back a ban on P-platers.

"There is no evidence that taking P-platers off the road would make the roads safer," he said

Now using data from http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety...ident-data.pdf:

Year to Date (Mar 2011)
0-4: 0
5-16: 2
17-20: 10
21-25: 10
26-29: 8
30-39: 7
40-49: 15
50-59: 14
60-69: 8
70+: 17
uknown: 0
Total: 91

So given the stats for NSW - THe fatal stats dont agree with the minority bashing (although non-fatal stats may be different)

[sxckevo]

PATHETIC!! all i can say

[Jack91]

Yeah great idea. Brilliant even.
What a crock of ******

[xisled]

That is taking it to far. What a load of ****

[ZDI-970]

they are complete ********* dumbasses lol.. one of the stupidest ideas ive ever heard

[fmc351]

You may want to read it, its not advocating a ban, its merely saying a majority (and thats only a majority of those surveyed), when asked the question about P platers, thought it may be a good idea. The govcos relevant minister actually stated he would NOT support such a ban.

We dont even know how the question was asked, so cant even say if that majority of a sample, is a real representation or a simplification of the actual question.

Given the reference to the rail and transport sector and High Speed rail, Im guessing its a survey to gauge support for for High Speed rail. Bullet trains (or the Euro equivalent) for the win.

[Matthew]

Its this mentality that really frustrates me, saying all p platers cant drive is pathetic, for one not everyone is the same, some people got it some people dont no different to say soccer players some people can play some cant. I dont know why people think differently when it comes to driving. As soon as you stick the letter P on your car your hopeless but the day you take it off your fine? 58% of australia is seriously dumb

[xisled]

Originally Posted by Matthew

Its this mentality that really frustrates me, saying all p platers cant drive is pathetic, for one not everyone is the same, some people got it some people dont no different to say soccer players some people can play some cant. I dont know why people think differently when it comes to driving. As soon as you stick the letter P on your car your hopeless but the day you take it off your fine? 58% of australia is seriously dumb

I disagree with you, a P plater is still a learner driver and is not a good driver until they have a few years experience. Just because a P plater may be a safe driver does not mean they are a good driver. Only over time a person can become a good driver.

[casabonka]

The other point mentioned of a zero alchohol limit over holidays. I think thats a good point. Would hopefully keep a few idiots off the road - which there has ben plenty like usual this weekend!

[TC200six]

I know such a thing would never happen. But just to think people want all P-plated drivers to be banned from driving for one day is a load of ....

There should be lower tolerance for drivers doing illegal things on the road like drink driving, or maybe speeding regardless of what licence they hold, but trying to prohibit all provisional drivers just sounds silly.

Thank goodness I edited this comment before I posted it.

[JG33RD]

Originally Posted by xisled

I disagree with you, a P plater is still a learner driver and is not a good driver until they have a few years experience. Just because a P plater may be a safe driver does not mean they are a good driver. Only over time a person can become a good driver.

So who dertimes who is a good driver and who isn't?

[NEEDspeed]

The cultivation of a nanny state obviously never looked as easy to some of these twits...and so the juggernaut rolls on into oblivion.

[fat4D]

Originally Posted by JG33RD

So who dertimes who is a good driver and who isn't?

im with you on this, hell every time i drive somewhere in Canberra i see middle age idiots who shouldn't be on the road at all let alone just have a P plate

[Nic302ef]

banning the driver isnt goining to stop much, hey it may save a life but at the cost of every one else who does the right thing.

Ultimatly imo, is early driving in a car should bare no passengers, as social influernces seem to be the biggest toll, e.g. a car full of young people,

[flappist]

I totally agree with not allowing inexperienced lowly skilled drivers on the roads at Easter.

Unfortunately the MAJORITY of inexperienced lowly skilled drivers are those of ALL ages and licensing durations who live in a city, usually take public transport to work and only ever drive to drop the kids off at school, down to the local shops, once a week to the golf club and once or twice a year for a distance of more than 50km.

THEY are the dangerous ones but the problem is THEY don't know it and would not accept it even if they did.

It would be nice if, like pilots, all drivers had log books detailing just how much driving they have done and in what conditions and locations.

[Riksta]

So what happens in jobs where people work over the weekend (like mine) and P-Platers need their car to get to/from work?

They're not allowed to drive to work that weekend and have to rely on someone else just because its a holiday weekend?

Garbage idea. No, I'm not a P-Plater, but I do work with people who are P-Platers who have been rostered on over the Easter weekend.

[Scott]

I fully agree with the idea of banning all P Platers at Easter.

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by flappist

It would be nice if, like pilots, all drivers had log books detailing just how much driving they have done and in what conditions and locations.

They do if they have an iPhone 4 They just dont know it

[2011G6E]

What the hell is the RTBU trying to prove? That we need a better rail network? Well duuh you tards...everyone knows that. I notice they said "between capital cities"...what about "outside capital cities"? I see so many young miners out here driving around in brand new Typhoons, XR6's, SV6's, and other cars, i'm sure they'd all love to be banned from driving the long country highways out here to get back and see family on the few days they do get off.

Glad I don't belong to the RTBU...I'm a member of the "other" railway union, the Australian Federated Union of Locomotive Engineers (AFULE)...

If the railways want to give the public good suggestions, how about they implement for car drivers the same "licencing" system that we train drivers have to go through? Every eighteen months to two years we have to virtually "re-sit our licences", and go through the whole process, proving we know all the rules and regulations, and still know all the techniques and skills of driving a train and that we know all the signalling. If we don't pass, you are sitting on the platform, not allowed to drive, until you get your skills back up to scratch and can prove you know what you're doing again. On top of this, we have a strictly zero tolerance for alcohol, and have to be zero BAC at all times we are on duty.

I don't know what the roads would be like if they brought this in for everyone...but I'm betting they'd be a lot emptier...

[buggo]

Originally Posted by Scott

I fully agree with the idea of banning all P Platers at Easter.

Is that a joke? Can I ask what your reasons are?

I'm sick of the general population having ths hate for p-platers.
Sure some are tossers, but so are many blokes in their 20's, 30's, 40's etc. We get targeted because we have a sign on our cars saying 'I love to speed and race and do mad burnouts and never stop at crossings and kick aniamals'.

I cannot think of how many times in the last 2 years odd that some lady in her 50's or 60's have shook their heads or waved their finger or just flat out give me the finger for no apparent reason. They assume that becasue I have P's I must be speeding, not giving them enough time to pull out. Yet I have my cruise set on 60 (or whatever the speed is) doing nothing wrong.
I've had people call me a **** wit p-plater at lights for no reason at all. I'm not talking crap I literally cannot think of a reason why this lady swore at me.

I cop something atleast once a week, either a dirty look or an angry point or the bird or straight out abuse. Sick to death of it.

I'm not saying I'm a great driver, but I make a conscious effort to be a considerate driver, which is more than can be said for alot of the turds who think they own the road. I think doing that makes me a 'safer' driver than alot of those out there.

[Stefan]

Why stop at Easter? Roads are too congested, ban them altogether I say...less 90' commos and e-series falcons on the road can only be a good thing.

[buggo]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Why stop at Easter? Roads are too congested, ban them altogether I say...less 90' commos and e-series falcons on the road can only be a good thing.

So what happens when people get their full license and drive for the first time?
Are you really that arrogant?
And if I was in a crash between an EL or an XY, I know what I'd rather be in...

[Barry_v]

P platers sure are easy to troll.

[thefargo]

Stefan has my sense of humour!

Ban drivers driving on roads where there is no safe run off for 2 metres. Surely if we look at Grand prix safety we should understand the sand/gravel concept of safety.

Perhaps when governments realise that accidents/speed does happen, and address their obligations to provide a safer environment, then real progress will be made.

I don't like driving on Saturday mornings as there are too many senior citz out shopping. Should they be banned?

[Matthew]

Originally Posted by xisled

I disagree with you, a P plater is still a learner driver and is not a good driver until they have a few years experience. Just because a P plater may be a safe driver does not mean they are a good driver. Only over time a person can become a good driver.

Oh really? so everyone starts off the at the same skill level and rises at the same rate? No i dont think so, there are kids out there who take a keen interest in cars and know well in advance how they work and take to driving like a fish to water from day 1. Then you get the nervous uncoordinated kid who is a slow learner and cant drive to save his life. Proof of this? look to formula 1 most drivers that get looked at are in there late teens, same age as a p plater... Mark Skaife actually started racing cars before he was licensed so an L plater showing people the way...ok thats racing but still involves knowing how to drive a car.
Everyone is different there are people of all ages that are shocking drivers and fantastic drivers.

[Bucknaked]

I think we should ban all self rightous idiots from driving. Their arrogance on the road is a danger to all other road users. They can't see past their halo's

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by thefargo

I don't like driving on Saturday mornings as there are too many senior citz out shopping. Should they be banned?

Yes they should, less Camrys and 4x4s dragging mobile retirement villages up and down the highway.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

What the hell is the RTBU trying to prove? That we need a better rail network? Well duuh you tards...everyone knows that. I notice they said "between capital cities"...what about "outside capital cities"? I see so many young miners out here driving around in brand new Typhoons, XR6's, SV6's, and other cars, i'm sure they'd all love to be banned from driving the long country highways out here to get back and see family on the few days they do get off.

Glad I don't belong to the RTBU...I'm a member of the "other" railway union, the Australian Federated Union of Locomotive Engineers (AFULE)...

If the railways want to give the public good suggestions, how about they implement for car drivers the same "licencing" system that we train drivers have to go through? Every eighteen months to two years we have to virtually "re-sit our licences", and go through the whole process, proving we know all the rules and regulations, and still know all the techniques and skills of driving a train and that we know all the signalling. If we don't pass, you are sitting on the platform, not allowed to drive, until you get your skills back up to scratch and can prove you know what you're doing again. On top of this, we have a strictly zero tolerance for alcohol, and have to be zero BAC at all times we are on duty.

I don't know what the roads would be like if they brought this in for everyone...but I'm betting they'd be a lot emptier...

I think the point of the traffic questions is to highlight the benefits of rail, and not so much the shortcomings of cars. But they are using perceived shortcomings from roads to make that point. Hey, if it gets a bullet train, or a fleet of those Asian or Euro 300km/h plus trains, Im all for the survey. It has to be better than flying.

Although, the best train trip I ever took was from Brissie to Cairns on the ??Sunlander?? I think it was called. Way better than the trip between Melb-Syd-Bris. Good crowd, nice train.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by Matthew

Oh really? so everyone starts off the at the same skill level and rises at the same rate? No i dont think so, there are kids out there who take a keen interest in cars and know well in advance how they work and take to driving like a fish to water from day 1. Then you get the nervous uncoordinated kid who is a slow learner and cant drive to save his life. Proof of this? look to formula 1 most drivers that get looked at are in there late teens, same age as a p plater... Mark Skaife actually started racing cars before he was licensed so an L plater showing people the way...ok thats racing but still involves knowing how to drive a car.
Everyone is different there are people of all ages that are shocking drivers and fantastic drivers.

For one your comparing car racing with driving on the road, two completely different things. And yes people learn at different levels, but no P Plater is a good driver, as I said yes there are SAFE P platers and knowing how a car works does help, but P platers are still learning, thats why they wear P plates. I have done motor cross, I have done drifting and drag racing for a few years now, yet at 26 I still think I have a heap to learn and do not class my self as a good driver. I am a safe driver and I can drive a car, I can also get out of dangerous situations, but I am still learning everyday on the road. Any idiot can drive a car, it aint exactly that hard, but to be a good driver takes many years of driving not just passing a driving test.

But back on topic. If I was the one doing the article, maybe they should encourage p platers to get out in the traffic to gain the experience for the easter break.

[ea90gl]

Takes years to be a good driver? Learning how to keep out of trouble is more than enough - don't speed, observe surroundings, knowing all the rules, respect the car and roads and that should be enough for the average joe. If a fella can't learn this in a couple of months driving then they must be a little slow in the head. The only difference between that mentioned and being an excellent driver is the experience - and for the non enthusiast like 98% out there, being good enough is well, good enough. Sure us enthusiasts try to be perfect and we watch and learn things about driving that makes us well aware more than the average but just because we may be like this doesn't make others who are not like this inadequate. In other words there is absolutely no reason to believe P platers are inadequate or should be banned from this and that unless a specific moron is happy to prove us wrong. By the way I've been off my P's for 7 years, I just remember what it was like being on them. And also, what's this fuss about the Easter period? Do people think the roads are empty until this magic date rolls around once a year? Drive through city peak hour back home and I'm sure there's enough traffic to deal with over any regular drive on an Easter holiday