Pinched-speeding

jackpot · 05-12-2006, 11:53 AM

Cop said he got a reading once I had passed him, driving away from him but I was looking in rear view mirror and he wasn't looking my way!

anybody know if a a hand held radar or laser gun can track your speed going away from speedtrap versus when you are driving towards the trap???

Casper · 05-12-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackpot

Cop said he got a reading once I had passed him, driving away from him but I was looking in rear view mirror and he wasn't looking my way!

anybody know if a a hand held radar or laser gun can track your speed going away from speedtrap versus when you are driving towards the trap???

You bet they can.

**Bluehoon** · 05-12-2006, 01:24 PM

If hand held won't stand up in court but........

XRQTOR · 05-12-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

You bet they can.

Being hand held it's LIDAR, therefor has to be aimed directly at the car.

jackpot · 05-12-2006, 01:55 PM

yeah but I was driving away not towards the gun, ......i know I was not clocked towards him because A) I was completely hidden behind a truck B) he said he got me going away passing truck!

f6tornado111 · 05-12-2006, 05:01 PM

So if he saw you passing the truck, he must have been looking, against your argument saying you saw him not looking at you.

Do you always look in the rear view mirror while overtaking a truck??

Don't mention that in court or you'll go for negligent driving too..

So which is it?? Did you overtake the truck or not ??

yes they can get you going away from the vehicle....

jackpot · 05-12-2006, 05:14 PM

well, when he pulled me up I was nice and polite and removed my helmet so he probaly won't remember me in court..................

f6tornado111 · 05-12-2006, 05:28 PM

Rear view mirror, and a helmet???

In the words of the red headed one, Please Explain....... I'll guess tho...

You are stuck behind a truck, ( on a bike ) and then you see a radar trap. Having gone past it, you check the side mirror and think 'haha, stuff them' so you gun it past the truck, only to be pinged when he hears the bike roar. I assume you have one of those noisy exhausts that all bikes have and when the copper hears you flog it, or even drop it back a cog, he swings around and pings you??

How close??

flappist · 05-12-2006, 06:17 PM

Ok a bit of reality:
1) You were tape recorded.
2) He WILL remember you, that is his job AND he has a tape of you.
3) You WILL lose in court, he is a professional and the prosecutor does this all day every day and you are an amateur.
4) The lidar is dead accurate, I have used it many times.

Sorry but you're gone.....

Sledgehammer · 05-12-2006, 06:56 PM

So flappist, what do you do then?

**Bluehoon** · 05-12-2006, 08:07 PM

lidar not accurate when held in hand.......... several cases dismissed in court as moving handheld lidar increases speed reading......

exrtnz · 05-12-2006, 08:45 PM

Get a good radar detector, the Bell Sti driver is undetectable and invisable to the cops equipment but its around 1000$ ive had no probs and very reliable.

LUXO_8 · 05-12-2006, 08:49 PM

were you speeding??? if so wear it!!!
ive been booked a couple of times recently (what can i say...bad run) but i know i was in the wrong, ive worn it and i havent made posts about it to see if i can get out of it....

just wear it and move on

Ford_V8 · 05-12-2006, 09:33 PM

Radar gun will work if you are traveling away from it as well. As far as I'm aware it works by sending a beam from your car back to the radar to measure distance , it then does this again at a defined interval and calculates your speed by (Speed = distance over time).

jackpot · 06-12-2006, 09:25 AM

UUHHHHH, was joking about wearing helmet while driving car..........

XA-Coupe · 06-12-2006, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

lidar not accurate when held in hand.......... several cases dismissed in court as moving handheld lidar increases speed reading......

You seem to have the courts and reality confused here.
Radar, and laser is accurate no matter which way you are going. The basic way it works proves that.
That the courts let something go has no bearing on the real world in any way, shape or form. It is them proving they are smarter than everyone else by letting blatant wrongs through.

GXL078 · 06-12-2006, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exrtnz

Get a good radar detector, the Bell Sti driver is undetectable and invisable to the cops equipment but its around 1000$ ive had no probs and very reliable.

And what is the FINE if you get caught with it?

TZENU · 06-12-2006, 10:15 AM

Were there 2 officers???
Reason i ask is because a mate got pulled over being a ****er. He took the fine to court and it took 8 months to hear it, their were 2 officers in the car that pulled him over. In court these 2 officers had 2 different stories and so my mate lost his licence for 4 months instead of 12...
So the police can sometimes stuff up... Really depends if you can be bothered going to court for it!

T_Terror · 06-12-2006, 10:17 AM

Why didnt you just ask to see the reading on the radar gun?

**Mechan1k** · 06-12-2006, 10:18 AM

something like 4 points and $1000 ... oh ... and they know you have one.

**Bluehoon** · 06-12-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

You seem to have the courts and reality confused here.
Radar, and laser is accurate no matter which way you are going. The basic way it works proves that.
That the courts let something go has no bearing on the real world in any way, shape or form. It is them proving they are smarter than everyone else by letting blatant wrongs through.

Without entering the debate of rights or wrongs, it has being proven in NSW at least, that when using handhelds, the lateral movement from an officer when using the gun does effect the reading....

Sapper · 06-12-2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_V8

Radar gun will work if you are traveling away from it as well. As far as I'm aware it works by sending a beam from your car back to the radar to measure distance , it then does this again at a defined interval and calculates your speed by (Speed = distance over time).

Ummm, not so sure about that. When a moving object is struck by a wave (eg, sound wave, radar waves, light rays), the wave may be absorbed or reflected. In the case of a reflected wave, the wavelength is changed based upon the speed of the moving object. This is known as the Doppler Effect. Listen to an emergency vehicle's sirens as they approach and then move away from you, its the easiest way to see this theory in action.

By shooting a wave of electomagnetic radiation (of known wavelength) at a car and measuring the change in wavelength, the speed towards or away from the LIDAR can be determined. The LIDAR can easily go from one direction to another.

Regarding the issue of hand held LIDARs giving an inaccurate reading, if the sensor is being moved backwards/forwards at the time the reading is taking place, it may read a different wavelength to the actual wavelength. In practical terms, I think that any difference in reading will be negilgable as the laser travels at the speed of light. I'm not entirely sure about this but, I would think that a LIDAR would only give an appropriate reading if the vehicle is travelling directly towards the LIDAR. Otherwise, it would give a speed lower than the actual speed of the car.

Sapper · 06-12-2006, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

something like 4 points and $1000 ... oh ... and they know you have one.

I thought it was 9 points and $1440.

**Mechan1k** · 06-12-2006, 11:05 AM

Just found it ... 9 points $1205 ... so you were close.

Fine is classed as:
Drive/stand vehicle with speed evasion article
Then you can be fine another $1205 for:
Failure to surrender speed evasion article.

4.9 EF Futura · 06-12-2006, 11:23 AM

Think the theory of relativity might come into play here???

Dont know what it's like these days, but when i was a youngin', the police would usually stop you and show you the reading on the radar. Chances of the fine being dismissed in court skyrocketed when the officer did not show you the reading on the gun.

Either way, refer to Flappist's post.

The answer as to whether you should appeal it lies in the question - were you speeding?

If you were (or suspect you were), and you're taking it to court on the odd chance you might get off on a technicality.... well, cheers for clogging up the court system.

vectra-racer · 06-12-2006, 11:46 AM

theres also the cosine effect, whereby the angle at the operator is away from you in degrees from a straight line [imagine a piece of cake, you're at the point of the cake travelling away from the edge along one of the straight lines, the cop is at the other corner of the edge of the cake] the greater this angle the LOWER the reading will be [works the same way in height terms too - if he was on a bridge for example] so the chances are that you were travelling faster than you were clocked at.

however the wave can reflect so lets say that you are travelling one way and another car going in the opposite direction, if the cop is angled just so then the wave can bounce off your car, hit the car going in the opposite direction then hit you again and go back to the cop, he then gets a reading of your two's combined speeds.

in the US many cases are thrown out when the officer is asked to demonstrate the equipment in court and the wall is travelling at 4mph or the judge at 15mph!!

the fact is hand held is nowhere near as accurate as tripod mounted. particularly if he had to swing it around to get you.

another thing is vibrations on your vehicle, if your number plate is vibrating due to wind, resonance or bass speakers this can vastly throw out the accuracy of the reading, tests were done in the uk on cars with large speakers, travellign at thirty miles an hour with the speakers off the reading was accurate, with the speakers on the reading was massively higher [400mph i think!]

but ultimately the chances of getting off on a technicality are slim, so unless you risk losing your licence or dont mind spending the money to defend it then you should bend over and take the punishment, and take solice from the fact that although you were speeding you were probably travellign at a safe speed and that not technically speeding on a winding snow covered road is far more dangerous.

the law sir, is an *** and my heart goes out to you

Lightning Strike GT · 06-12-2006, 12:51 PM

Handhelds have too many variables - weather , surroundings and best of all software faults.
Get the serial no off tha radar then get the FOI and see if it has been upgraded with the latest software and calibrated with the weights and measures act

GXL078 · 06-12-2006, 01:36 PM

Of course the old cosine effect! Quote from my wife: "what use is all that stupid trigonometry we learnt in high school?....who cares how far away the bloody ship is", LOL

Sm0kinup · 06-12-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Just found it ... 9 points $1205 ... so you were close.

Fine is classed as:
Drive/stand vehicle with speed evasion article
Then you can be fine another $1205 for:
Failure to surrender speed evasion article.

Not in WA!!!! yeah!

:

Yellow_Festiva · 06-12-2006, 08:57 PM

I have seen the odd hand held radar fine get over ruled in court. I remember a guy in a blue WRX fought them and won, and naturally it was all over the news. However thei may end up costing you thousands of dollars if you lose. And for the one that is shown on tv there must be hundreds that get taken to court and the driver gets done over more than b4.

Having said that you are allowd to ask to see the reading on the radar.

However unless you are a lawyer or know some legal loophole, or can prove the unit was faulty on the day then your buggered....