Speeding Fine 8km over $2900 !!!!

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Phildo

Set up a shelf company ($1000 cost?).

Register the car in that company's name.

Get a $2,952 fine.

Shut the company down and sell car to replacement shelf company.

Stupid, but cheaper.

I wish it were that simple but if its a company, then there would be a lot of legal and accounting fees to pay to reconcile the dissolution of that company. That vehicle would more than likely be used as a form of collateral to pay for any outstanding bills owed by the company including fines.

With ocba/asic they make sure all 'I's are dotted and all 't's are crossed before any company is forclosed or liquidated.

Happy to be proven wrong.

[mancavedweller]

Quite some time ago the police in the UK told a motoring magazine they often turn a blind eye to vehicles travelling up to 90mph (not kph) when the motorway limit was 70mph. They claimed speeding was not really the cause of many accidents.

I truly believe speeding fines are just revenue raising and I wouldn't be surprised if the UK is now the same. I see such terrible driving standards here. Lane hogging on freeways, no clue how to merge, hoon like driving, incorrect indicating at roundabouts, tailgating, etc, and yet these never seem to get addressed after years and years. Catching drivers going a few Ks over the limit seems to be the main thing to squeeze money out of people.

For safety ?? Sorry I think that that's complete crap

[Phildo]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I wish it were that simple but if its a company, then there would be a lot of legal and accounting fees to pay to reconcile the dissolution of that company. That vehicle would more than likely be used as a form of collateral to pay for any outstanding bills owed by the company including fines.

With ocba/asic they make sure all 'I's are dotted and all 't's are crossed before any company is forclosed or liquidated.

Happy to be proven wrong.

Bugger.

Nothing like reality to ruin a perfectly good scam.

Back to signing everything over to backpacker tourists, huh?

[Deo]

And they are only alleging 4km/h over the limit!

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by Phildo

How do you keep track of which apprentice mechanic test drives your car when it's in for a service?

And how is that related to my post?

But to answer your question you contact the dealer where the service was undertaken and attempt to identify the driver. If they don't know, gather your evidence and attempts to identify the driver and elect court.
Plead not guilty and go to court. As it was not you as the driver and you can prove the car was not in your possession on the day of the offence and you can prove your attempts to identify the driver you will be found not guilty.

[imugli]

It's simple. Nominate a driver, who will have to pay the normal fine for doing 8km over the limit and cop the demerit points, and the company doesn't have to pay anything.

[lilmattie]

Originally Posted by ratter

while people continually repeatedly break the road rules the punishments will continue to rise

And as long as there are people, they will continually repeatedly break the road rules... even unwittingly/unwillingly.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by ratter

while people continually repeatedly break the road rules the punishments will continue to rise

Driving around Australia there are far fewer "speeders" now, than 5 years ago. To make up for that they keep increasing the fines for the tiny infractions. 90% of all fines are for less than 10km/h over the limit.

Edit: To put that into perspective, you can drive right across America at 10MPH over the limit and not receive a second glance. Once you break that you may start to attract attention.

In Europe it is not unusual to be 40km/h+ over the limit and be overtaken by police.

[Deo]

Originally Posted by irish2

90% of all fines are for less than 10km/h over the limit.

In SA they changed the punishment brackets to <10km/h over, 10-20km/h over and 30+km/h over.
I didn't even know until I got a fine!

[ratter]

Speeding numbers are still up, some are getting multiple bookings, obviously not being put off by the current fines

[2011G6E]

Common practice up here with the mines. They apparently don't nominate the driver...which is plainly obvious when you see the "standards" of driving exhibited by miners on mine vehicles on the roads around here...not to mention the many who seem to think it says "Ferrari" instead of "Toyota" on the utes when coming to and from work after time away...good lord...how there isn't ten deaths a week on the Capricorn Highway I will never know.

Mines apparently don't want to lose workers who lose licences, so they don't nominate the driver, pay the higher fine (I think in Queensland it's three times the amount according to ex-cops I work with) and then the offending miner is called in and has to pay back the fine to the company. He keeps his licence, the mine keeps a driving worker. Everyone is happy!

Except the rest of us who have to share the highway out here with guys who drive like uncaring lunatics knowing they're "untouchable" unless a cop actually pulls them over.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by ratter

Speeding numbers are still up

No great surprise. When they rolled out cameras en masse in Vic, lots of people were booked (predominantly at the lower end). Over time, the number booked fell. Not satisfied, Vic reduced the tolerance to the low level it is now. Predictably, the number booked went back up and so too did the revenue, even though the research shows pretty clearly there is little to be gained in terms of safety by policing at this end of the spectrum...

[ratter]

I think you may have read more into my post than what I have written. I do not like speed cameras, being fined, tight tolerances etc, but fact is while numbers are up then it appears some people do not consider the punishment harsh enough to stop. Speeding is speeding, 1 kmh over is speeding, harsh to get done for it, but accept it if you get done

[steve.zissou]

Originally Posted by ratter

while people continually repeatedly break the road rules the punishments will continue to rise

Mick, you know i think highly of you but i am going to disagree on this one.

I counter and say that as more people obey the rules and drive slower, the more fines and enforcement methods will increase. other wise revenue from fines will go down (havnt seen that happen - ever)

If speeding fines make people slow down how come each year the govt "earns" (bad word for it) more in fine revenue.

All governments are reducing the fine thresholds (speeding brackets and the grace amount)

Lets not forget that cars and their owners aren't responsible for speeding, drivers are. Should the owner of a knife be held accountable for murder if they cant identify the person that used the knife.

and finally, lets not forget that less than 7% of road fatalities are as a result of excessive speed (including travelling under the limit but too fast for the conditions).

then you have jerks like these that bash a poor bloke at a night club (kick and stomp him) and get ................. $220 and $330 fines respectively. Is it just me that thinks there is something seriously out of wack
http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/st...d-on-teenager/

now i need to go and pay that Melbourn parking fine i just got because my meter expired at 6:57pm and the free parking began at 7pm (yep i got the fine at 6:58) Guess I have to brush up on my Honest and reasonable mistake of fact defence again

[Charliewool]

Hammer, nail head Steve zissou!
Excellent post that!!

[blueoval]

Spot on Steve. It wouldn't matter if everyone was under the limit for a month, the tolerance would just reduce (without reason or warning) to ensure they get their money. Why? Because it's EASY for govco to rake in. No courts, no arguments, just a big fat fine for the money to fill the coffers. The 'speed kills' mantra is just there to keep the do gooders at bay.

[ROOSTA]

I cant believe this is even getting air time.. I saw it on FB and couldnt believe the guy was so totally obsessed with whinging and whining over it..

Anyone who has worked for a company where a car is given as a work tool or benefit should be aware of this..

[EDManual]

I was in SA the other week, happened to go past a speed camera, and was accelerating not watching my speedo at all, just the road, saw the camera after i went past and thought I may be doing around 65, was a 50 zone I later found out.

Anyway, looking on the net to see what I may be in for, couldnt believe its something like $220 up to 9 over, $450 for 10 to 19 and $800+ for just 20 over! Its madness!!

Anyway I was lucky and must have been not speeding as i passed it and sped up afterwards!

I was in France for 3 months recently, just out of interest doing 20km/h over the limit is a 45 Euro fine!!!!!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by ratter

I think you may have read more into my post than what I have written. I do not like speed cameras, being fined, tight tolerances etc, but fact is while numbers are up then it appears some people do not consider the punishment harsh enough to stop. Speeding is speeding, 1 kmh over is speeding, harsh to get done for it, but accept it if you get done

Its a tax on normal human behavior. The RTA's own research shows that the majority of drivers exceed the limit. If the majority of people do something, is it really something that warrants so much attention, especially when it has negligible impact on safety?

[bobwm]

Sometimes a law isn't always just and breaking the law isn't always wrong. Illegal != wrong.

Lots of stuff used to be illegal and I'm sure debates went on about how all people had to do not to get punished was to not break the law. Like being a witch. Or having an 'inappropriate' relationship with someone of the same gender.

Laws are made by people and people's motivations aren't always as altruistic as you might like to hope. Even members of state parliaments in Australia - traditionally beacons of morality and ethics.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Phildo

Set up a shelf company ($1000 cost?).

Register the car in that company's name.

Get a $2,952 fine.

Shut the company down and sell car to replacement shelf company.

Stupid, but cheaper.

Are fines claimable against tax ?

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Are fines claimable against tax ?

Nice try
Theyre not an expense, they are an expiation....im sure any accountant would agree.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by EDManual

I was in SA the other week, happened to go past a speed camera, and was accelerating not watching my speedo at all, just the road, saw the camera after i went past and thought I may be doing around 65, was a 50 zone I later found out.

Anyway, looking on the net to see what I may be in for, couldnt believe its something like $220 up to 9 over, $450 for 10 to 19 and $800+ for just 20 over! Its madness!!

Anyway I was lucky and must have been not speeding as i passed it and sped up afterwards!

I was in France for 3 months recently, just out of interest doing 20km/h over the limit is a 45 Euro fine!!!!!

Not only that, French police only really start to care at 30km/h over the limit. They are also some of the more strict ones on speed in mainland Europe.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Just nominate the driver and pay the normal fine, pretty simple really, the high fine is for trying to cheat the system. Be honest and pay the normal fine.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by steve.zissou

Lets not forget that cars and their owners aren't responsible for speeding, drivers are. Should the owner of a knife be held accountable for murder if they cant identify the person that used the knife.

Your car your responsibility, if you let someone else drive it and they speed or commit any offences in your vehicle you need to pass that information on or wear it yourself, seems, like a pretty simple task to me.

Otherwise everyone would just say, wow can't remember who was driving.

How about someone does a hit and run on your pride and joy, you get the rego and the cops go around and the registered owner declares that he was not driving and does not know who was, so no one is responsible for your damage.

So by your logic no one would be held responsible for the damage to your vehicle.

Wonder what your response would be then??

[mancavedweller]

All I can say is I'm rather ashamed of our childish theif leaders who don't know any better way of making money than finding ways to legally steal money from its people.

Laws like these are put in place for safety yet seems in the US, UK, Europe, a blind eye is turned to low end speeding because it's pretty much proven this is a small cause of accidents. They are practical about it and don't just rip their own people off simply because they can. I'd even say because you are monitoring your speed so tightly you won't pay attention to real safe driving, you are two busy constantly monitoring the speedo needle.

They pay for TV adverts on speeding to phsycologically brainwash drivers into thinking they deserve to be fined. Do we ever see such adverts for all the types of wreckless driving we see everyday, no way, it's probably not good business and it's more costly to police. Who gives a toss about real safety, we just want money.

This is just another form of corruption in a nice wrapper as far as I'm concerned. Call ourselves a developed country, depends on what our definition of that is.

[XBROO]

Yep just purely revenue raising, if the government was serious the CEO of said company should cop fine and points. Then they might suddenly remember who was driving. This is just a loop hole that works for both the company and the government. As the real prize is the money not the points.

Plus this would only work on a small company, bigger companies wouldn't even notice 3 grand missing in their KPI's

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by irish2

Not only that, French police only really start to care at 30km/h over the limit. They are also some of the more strict ones on speed in mainland Europe.

Out of interest, how does their speeding related fatalities compare to ours?

[irish2]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Out of interest, how does their speeding related fatalities compare to ours?

If you want stats you can research that yourself. It was a night and day driving experience. They were courteous, quick, and efficient. Pretty much the total opposite to here...

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by irish2

If you want stats you can research that yourself. It was a night and day driving experience. They were courteous, quick, and efficient. Pretty much the total opposite to here...

Just curious mate.