Government to probe 'killer' Volkswagens

[jpblue1000]

While not concentrating on driving she wrong slotted from 4th to 1st instead of fifth...Nobody will ever know. But in 30 years of driving in all sorts of cars Ive never had a flame out result in such rapid deceleration. I'd put my faith in the engineers predicting this and preventing the car from such behavior upon dropping into limp home and the real reason being drivers error in the case of the young woman and truck.
I hope Im not proven wrong as I put a lot of faith in engineers from aircraft to buildings in cyclone and earthquake zones...
Dear god help me.
JP

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by SS_01

......

Most likely the issue will be arising from the wiring loom, which sends a pulse through the vehicle every 30 milliseconds to determine issues with the car.......

IIR, the modern car has a single wire (replacing a whole loom) that tracks around all 4 corners to analyse/control all system using a mini computer terminal at each corner. Something like that..?

[SS_01]

Okay, maybe this explains it a little better, this is directly out of Volkswagens fundamentals book about engine electronics.

"So that all components can communicate with the controller, they exchange their signals via a so-called CAN databus (CAN: Controller Area Network). This gauruntees that several controllers process the information provided by a sensor and that their actuators are correspondingly triggered. As a host of information is exchanged in a modern car, certain tasks have their own dedicated databus systems. The Volkswagen Golf, for example, has its own databus system for controlling the engine and transmission (Drive train CAN) in addition to the bus systems for controlling the convenience functions (convenience CAN) and the radio or navigation equipment (Infotainment CAN)."

So, each of these bus systems (Which get reports from 100s of sensors) report back to a gateway control unit that takes care of everything. Ill see if i can take a photo of this diagram i have in front of me for you guys to see. But even so, their is a another little listing on the side talking about sensors, including a detonation sensor, a crankshaft sensor that determines it is rotating correctly and others. Amazing stuff, but with all these systems working together, it wouldn't take much for something to go amiss i am sure.

[ryeman]

I loved my old Morris Minor.....

[KIWI-1]

Forget about imported vs. local, quality control, German reliability etc...

It's a PUBLIC RELATIONS DISASTER.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by ryeman

I loved my old Morris Minor.....

With Lucas electrics so treasured by Jaguar owners

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

With Lucas electrics so treasured by Jaguar owners

No!.....too simple to have hassles

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by ESP

Scary stuff -

But Volkswagen ( and many other EUROs ) - aint exactly EURO anymore - right ? A lot of their stuff is manufactured Globally. Indonesia / Mexico / South Africa / Spain / China etc.

Just sayin that just because it's a VW - doesnt mean its GERMAN build quality.

I'll go along with that. Mercedes Sprinter vans are good examples... flamin' lumps of faeces.

[aussie muscle]

to prevent the vehicles from slowing suddenly or shifting into “limp home mode”.
The self-contained safety measure is common on most new cars with engines controlled by computer software, and are designed to prompt drivers to take their car to a dealership while not leaving them stranded.

Perhaps the 'limp-home' mode is something they need to reconsider? i'd have thought that if the engine were running, good or bad, it'd either get you home or die completely. Limp-mode is just FORCING drivers to get their vehicles checked, rather than just having a light on the dash (or a warning beep, or a buzzer), there are plenty of ways to annoy the driver enough to get it looked at, rather than hobbling it.

[eb2fairmont]

I suspect the car involved had the 125 tdi motor, which prior to the move to common rail had all sorts of trouble with the siemens peizo injectors.

These would burn out, taking the wiring loom with them, and ergo instant shutdown. Father in law had this happen to him when he owned a Golf GT. Lost all faith in that car (and he loved it) and sold it not long after for a Mazda 6.

Prior to that he had owned a couple of golfs and would have lined up for another.

Thing is all manufacturers have faults its how they deal with them that counts. How many times do you hear "they all do that" or "its in spec", or "I can't hear it"? Or the more insidious we haven't had this problem before, its an isolated occurrence etc.

VW have been doing this for a while now, there are some quality issues since 2004 where they have dropped the ball. The chickens are coming home to roost now, and the tarnish will take time to resolve.

[KIWI-1]

Nope Petrol Manual

[Bossxr8]

Golf and reliability are 2 words that shouldn't be used together.

[ryeman]

I would absolutely LOVE to have a Golf but I go back to the days of the VR6 version which was on paper a 2.8 narrow angle rocket, but had a bad reliability record and was accepted as a lemon by nearly everyone.
At that time engine and particularly transmission failures were common and would keep you worrying once out of warranty, it seems not much has changed.
Our works Kombi had to have a new auto tx in the first 6 months.....but it's always tempting to push your luck.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by stevz

Its not rocket science - People have digs at the Falcon, it spreads through word of mouth, the car develops a bad reputation .... Result = buyers avoid it like the plague.
Is that so hard for you to believe? Have you been living in a cave for the last 10 years?
Not saying that was the only thing that killed the Falcon, but it was certainly a major contributing factor.

Word of mouth did hurt Falcon in my opinion. Unhappy customers do talk about their experiences. Who made them unhappy? Ford and the Ford dealer network usually.

Despite what some real diehard fans here would like to believe, people didn't buy a Ford car, that was second only in large purchases to their house, so they could make bad stuff up about it.

Volkswagon hasn't been looking after their customers and have been trying to get around proper recalls and honoring warranty claims. People have been sharing their experiences and finding they aren't the only ones getting mucked around by the company. Eventually the media get wind of it and blow it up, but really by that point the damage is done and goodwill has evaporated with many existing customers who are already thinking about their next non VW car. The net effect is VW's reputation and most probably their sales will longer term take a hit and never recover, no matter how good a future model might be.

Sound familiar? It should.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

The net effect is VW's reputation and most probably their sales will longer term take a hit and never recover, no matter how good a future model might be.

Sound familiar? It should.

Have you seen the size of VW's market? And their biggest market is China. It would take a lot to put a big chink in it. They've had on and off problems for years but people still keep buying them.

As I keep saying (and I'll try not to say it again!), if you want a VW, buy a Skoda. It might be the same platform but there's a hell of a difference in execution and reliability (with a roomier interior as a bonus).

[Cobramad]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

With Lucas electrics so treasured by Jaguar owners

Aah... Lucas, the Prince of Darkness..

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Cobramad

Aah... Lucas, the Prince of Darkness..

Yeah they made a vacuum cleaner for a while.....it was the only thing they made that didn't suck.

[BPXR6T]

Oh great. I'm stuck with a golf rental next week!

[Bearman]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

With Lucas electrics so treasured by Jaguar owners

Yeah, gotta love the 3 position toggle switches - Off/On/Lets start a fire.

Back on topic, this is a worry for VW. Won't be doing their reputation any good. I was considering a Tiguan as a possible future replacement for the wife's car, will have to do a rethink on that!!

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Bearman

Back on topic, this is a worry for VW. Won't be doing their reputation any good. I was considering a Tiguan as a possible future replacement for the wife's car, will have to do a rethink on that!!

There's still a choice for you:

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...a_yetii_103tdi

I don't know why people have trouble seeing past the badge, especially when one badge is overall a better-produced car than the other.

But I think this anti-VW reaction thing is going overboard. They're still a very good car. These issues arise with almost any brand (but less with Skoda than VW!).

The Germans love to put all their latest high-tech developments into their cars - and those developments can come unstuck during the proving period (which involves customers unfortunately). Skoda uses the technology from VW that has already been proven. Plus they have a local and educated, loyal and skilled workforce in their factories, whereas Germany has relied heavily on unskilled "immigrant" labour for many years. So no matter what high standards are set by the company, those standards can be let down in execution on the factory floor. Big generalisation, but it's a broad comparative picture between the two countries' auto industries (and other industries too from personal experience).

[ryeman]

Diversifying their manufacturing facilities to 'emerging' nations whilst producing vehicles that are intended to be cutting edge tech and cheaper to product has put their reputation at further risk....in reliability terms it has been THE issue for them for the last 40 odd years, ever since they went FWD with the Golf.
In particular auto trans failures have been constant issues which they haven't eliminated by pausing and fixing, instead plunging into even more sophisticated and complex versions.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by ryeman

constant issues which they haven't eliminated by pausing and fixing,

I guess you could call Skoda VW's pause and fix workshop! I know there's been some angst at Wolfsburg over the years that Skoda keeps doing better than they do, but the profits from Skoda are too attractive for VW to do much about that. The profits from Skoda and Seat bailed VAG out a decade ago and don't they know it.

I still like the Morris Minor option. How I loved working myself on my old Mini!

[eb2fairmont]

Originally Posted by new2ford

There's still a choice for you:

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...a_yetii_103tdi

I don't know why people have trouble seeing past the badge, especially when one badge is overall a better-produced car than the other.

But I think this anti-VW reaction thing is going overboard. They're still a very good car. These issues arise with almost any brand (but less with Skoda than VW!).

The Germans love to put all their latest high-tech developments into their cars - and those developments can come unstuck during the proving period (which involves customers unfortunately). Skoda uses the technology from VW that has already been proven. Plus they have a local and educated, loyal and skilled workforce in their factories, whereas Germany has relied heavily on unskilled "immigrant" labour for many years. So no matter what high standards are set by the company, those standards can be let down in execution on the factory floor. Big generalisation, but it's a broad comparative picture between the two countries' auto industries (and other industries too from personal experience).

Yes but VWA doesn't price skoda as a value brand here like it does in Europe. So what do you think brand snobs will buy? Could argue the same about Hyundai, from cheap nasty s.boxes to reasonably priced cars.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by new2ford

I guess you could call Skoda VW's pause and fix workshop! I know there's been some angst at Wolfsburg over the years that Skoda keeps doing better than they do, but the profits from Skoda are too attractive for VW to do much about that. The profits from Skoda and Seat bailed VAG out a decade ago and don't they know it.

I still like the Morris Minor option. How I loved working myself on my old Mini!

To me Skoda having the same drive trains has meant that I've lumped them both together .....how do THEY address the problems VW have?
Do they have better suppliers or something else?
Plus resale/depreciation issues.....how many buyers would there be?

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

Yes but VWA doesn't price skoda as a value brand here like it does in Europe. So what do you think brand snobs will buy?

Yes that's the issue.

Originally Posted by ryeman

To me Skoda having the same drive trains has meant that I've lumped them both together .....how do THEY address the problems VW have?
Do they have better suppliers or something else?

Because Skoda is not a "subsidiary" of VW in a design and manufacturing sense. It's an independent carmaker (and a very old one, much older than VW) drawing on their own country's engineering expertise. They get to pick and choose from VW's inventory and then work it up themselves. So in one sense it's the "same" car, in another sense it's not. And yes, local suppliers. The Czechs are very pragmatic, they like to make sure something works before it goes out to the world.

There's a saying that the Germans make perfect products for a perfect world, the Czechs make perfect products for an imperfect world. A lot of Czech roads, for example, are as bad as bad Australian roads and so their suspension is differently tuned!

Originally Posted by ryeman

Plus resale/depreciation issues.....how many buyers would there be?

Totally different situation in Europe where Skoda has huge sales. In Australia they're still tiny.

[ryeman]

^^^^ to me that's the issue re depreciation .... Best to buy secondhand/demo

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by DJM83

It's an extreme case but it's not like any other car makers don't have their faults. Nice dig at imports

with all the digs at Australian cars lately, i think it's fair
Imported cars aren't invincible

[GQ_Smooth]

When we purchased the BF2 Ghia 5 years ago, we were also looking at a Passat, it was our local mechanic that talked me out of it, his wife has (had) one (mind you he also tried to talk us into an Aurion rather than the Ghia).

Lady at work purchased a brand new Jetta TDi, earlier this year. Went into limp mode twice on a holiday drive from Melbourne to Adelaide, both times after waiting 1-2hrs the car went good again. Took it to the dealer, no fault codes came up. After arguing and some pointless threats, dealer changed the injectors, fault hasn't re-occurred.

For the volumes of VW's sold in Australia, I would be concerned about the warranty/failure rate of their product.

[TheSneakiness]

I've owned 4 cars which three have clapped out on me on highways at speed.

- EA Falcon (TPS sensor went)
- BAII Falcon (suspected TPS/FBW issue)
- NS Pajero (Current, miscommunication issue between engine ECU and auto ECU, reflash fixed the problem)

I can tell you and many others have its not just one make of car.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

with all the digs at Australian cars lately, i think it's fair
Imported cars aren't invincible

I do realise this, happens to all makes as i already posted in here.