VE SS to nudge 300kW?

[SSbaby]

Read under 'Holden and HSV'...

[DJM83]

yeah read it i think its all about an EGO problem over at fishermans bend

[SSbaby]

I'm not sure that it's an ego problem... but the 'problem' for Holden is that the 6.0L LS2 is already in a mild state of tune... it could easily accept headers and decent exhaust and exceed 330kW.

That's why I believe the 5.3L will easily fulfill Holden's requirements but I think that by stocking common inventories for the LS2 (instead of two distinct engine lines), Holden and its dealers are able to reduce their costs.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

I'm not sure that it's an ego problem... but the 'problem' for Holden is that the 6.0L LS2 is already in a mild state of tune... it could easily accept headers and decent exhaust and exceed 330kW.

That's why I believe the 5.3L will easily fulfill Holden's requirements but I think that by stocking common inventories for the LS2 (instead of two distinct engine lines), Holden and its dealers are able to reduce their costs.

With Euro 3 noise regs it's not that easy to just put a higher flowing exhaust anymore. I think the SS will be de tuned just like the VT was, with maybe 270 kw to start with, an then we'll see the usual Holden add 5 kw with every model b*ll that gets the bogans excited.

[banarcus]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

With Euro 3 noise regs it's not that easy to just put a higher flowing exhaust anymore. I think the SS will be de tuned just like the VT was, with maybe 270 kw to start with, an then we'll see the usual Holden add 5 kw with every model b*ll that gets the bogans excited.

Exactly my take of this. Why would they put all their cards on the table first up?

[Quadcams]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

I'm not sure that it's an ego problem... but the 'problem' for Holden is that the 6.0L LS2 is already in a mild state of tune... it could easily accept headers and decent exhaust and exceed 330kW.

Mate mild state of tune I've raced a LS2 with full exaust, cai and edit by a well known tuner kicked his *** there not that much chop also his mph was about the same as mine what does that tell ya definatly not 330+kw.

[Falcon Coupe]

They just keep getting better, but the cost of petrol nowdays takes away some of the exitment i used to feel when seeing a new more powerfull car coming our way.

[aimzes]

i think its pretty silly to have a car like the SS (or even and XR8) come from the factory with 300kw. i mean where the f is it gonna end and how much more power will the hsv's or fpv's need to have. also how fast does a factory performance sedan need to go?

but then again, 300kw is what a 6.0 should be punching out.

eh dont mind me im probably talking absolute nonsence... im all for tuning cars and stuff but i dunno if a $50k sedan needs that much power from the factory...

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by aimzes

i think its pretty silly to have a car like the SS (or even and XR8) come from the factory with 300kw. i mean where the f is it gonna end and how much more power will the hsv's or fpv's need to have. also how fast does a factory performance sedan need to go?

...

Wouldn't Holden and Ford start to reduce the capacity of the engines??
To get alot of power (for a stock production car) with a smaller engine capacity (like in europe) would help them with the price of fuel. They should be able to increase the fuel efficiency of the car.

[Falchoon]

Originally Posted by aimzes

i think its pretty silly to have a car like the SS (or even and XR8) come from the factory with 300kw. i mean where the f is it gonna end and how much more power will the hsv's or fpv's need to have. also how fast does a factory performance sedan need to go?

but then again, 300kw is what a 6.0 should be punching out.

eh dont mind me im probably talking absolute nonsence... im all for tuning cars and stuff but i dunno if a $50k sedan needs that much power from the factory...

They need so much power to drag their lard ar$es around. Each new car seems to be heavier than the last model even though half of the car is made of plastic. The new cars aren't neccesarily any quicker than the previous model because of this weight, which is due to extras like a/c, p/s, power windows, Brembo brakes etc.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Falchoon

They need so much power to drag their lard ar$es around. Each new car seems to be heavier than the last model even though half of the car is made of plastic. The new cars aren't neccesarily any quicker than the previous model because of this weight, which is due to extras like a/c, p/s, power windows, Brembo brakes etc.

That's a good point. VE with LS2 might not be any faster than a VZ LS1.

[Ryan]

Mmmmm some peopole have made good points in this thread.

If the VE SSs get 300Kw I wonder what the HSV models get?

Could we see power of atleast 320-350Kw from HSVs? I dont think it would would happen though.

Originally Posted by aimzes

but then again, 300kw is what a 6.0 should be punching out.

Yeh, 300kw for an untuned, highly inefficent 6L, sounds about right.

[Bucket]

Is it just me or do Ford do a lot more work to get the power out of the 5.4L mill than Holden with their 6.0L job?? Seems to me like Holden just pull out a screw driver, get under the hood and turn the "more power" screw a couple of notches and viola! a 300Kw SS... I dont think Ford AU play the same game as GMH. Sure, they're (ford au) all about improving the current product..but they do it a bit differently to GMH...Correct me if im wrong (and i dont mind saying that I am often) but it seems like Ford AU are more about building a quality car with power whilst GMH (or as it seems, until recently) have been all about building a car with the most grunt on the market and only now GMH are matching Ford with the complexity of Parts being used in the VE (ie. Control Blade Vs. the new IRS from GM)...just wait for the all new falcon in 07 i say...Ford had their time in the sun (and boy was it good (COTY...3rd in PCOTY) with the BA and as a lot of people are saying..how do you improve on something so good? they probably could of easily funded a serious redevelopment of the Boss engine with the BF but isnt that money better spent on the 07 Falcon?? just give the 6 Speed Auto and new refinements in the BF a chance before we say much more about the official figures from both Ford and Holden and their new toys that havent even been released yet...we're arguing over the hypothetical...some hype from a magazine artical posted by a GMH fan that may have just wanted to see us all squirm :voldar02:

[twr7cx]

Will this not end up like the days of the Phase III were the Phase 4 was banned or what ever due to the high output?

What sort of performance figures will the HSV's be pushing out then? And whats Ford gunna bite back with?

[xf_vanner]

Originally Posted by twr7cx

Will this not end up like the days of the Phase III were the Phase 4 was banned or what ever due to the high output?

What sort of performance figures will the HSV's be pushing out then? And whats Ford gunna bite back with?

I was thinking the same thing i think its gonna happen all ova again

[galaxy xr8]

If they go to 300kw for the plain jane SS, that doesn't leave them much room for the HSV variant's, this kw power can not keep going on like it is, I am glad Ford/FPV did not increase their kw number's in an attampt to win bragging right's.

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Read under 'Holden and HSV'...

Oh god i wonder what this will do to all those poor GTS owners that folked out 100k for there vechiles.Holden and HSV look after your customers first before trying to take up a Battle that can't be won. :

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by FPVGT

Oh god i wonder what this will do to all those poor GTS owners that folked out 100k for there vechiles.Holden and HSV look after your customers first before trying to take up a Battle that can't be won. :

Don't worry about the HSV owners... look at your car's depreciation fall. :

[jmc-007]

Originally Posted by FPVGT

Oh god i wonder what this will do to all those poor GTS owners that folked out 100k for there vechiles.Holden and HSV look after your customers first before trying to take up a Battle that can't be won. :

What can you do, people need to realise they need to go forward.

Just because they brought a VXII 300kw GTS back in 2002 !!!! doesnt mean HSV should have to stop at 297 in the current vz series.

These days i think even HSV and FPV need to chase as many people as they can.

Days are gone of the limited run GT and special run cars.

Not too mention that cars are a bad investment unless its something classic.

(unless you do a lease to save you money) etc etc

[smciner1]

Originally Posted by jmc-007

What can you do, people need to realise they need to go forward.

Just because they brought a VXII 300kw GTS back in 2002 !!!! doesnt mean HSV should have to stop at 297 in the current vz series.

These days i think even HSV and FPV need to chase as many people as they can.

Days are gone of the limited run GT and special run cars.

Not too mention that cars are a bad investment unless its something classic.

(unless you do a lease to save you money) etc etc

VT II was the first 300 kw GTS.

[M14A-Mclaren]

Power doesnt impress me that much anymore, sure as long as its up there like FPV is basically at now thats good. What really impresses me is a cars handling. I think they should be pushing in the cornering, braking and comfort, probably in that order.

[gtfpv]

it is good to see . if a merc or bm can produce 383 kws in a lighter car and do 11,s down the 400m i cant see the problem with 300kw holdens and fords doing 12 - 13's.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

it is good to see . if a merc or bm can produce 383 kws in a lighter car and do 11,s down the 400m i cant see the problem with 300kw holdens and fords doing 12 - 13's.

I can. Mercs or BMW's that have that much power are prohibitavely costly, meaning that your average hoon can't afford to get behind the wheel. If you make it so that any idiot with 50 grand can get behind the wheel of something that powerful then the horror high speed smashes witnessed today in cars like the WRX and Nissan GT's are easily going to transcend down the line to Aussie V8's.

Given the fact that Holden drivers are typically more inclined to be hoons and behave more like a yobbo than an intelligent person, I can only foresee a higher representation of commodores in street racing, ramraids and high speed smashes from little Ahmed losing it on his P's.

Also, the fact that every poor bastard who bought a HSV is going to be Usurped by a lower line model will mean that the resale on all of these models will drop like a stone.
Moreover, isn't this the problem with Holden overall?
I mean, they release a model like the VY, and then 5 months later release the VYII. Every time they do this the poor bastard who owns one of these cars loses an extra 3 grand on the resale even before the car has aged a couple of months.

Anyway, Holden will be interesting to watch as all is not well at GMC with huge losses globally, and their supposed jewel GMH has already been told to "significantly reduce costs". GMC have also only approved 500 million of the 1 billion VE program for GMH, and they are still fighting about it.

Just one of the reasons for their downsizing and sending a lot of work offshore to Korea. In years to come we may see Holden become a fully imported brand as the commodore is now the only model made here, and with the VE only between 45-55% will be local content. I read a story on this in the AFR and I will try to scan it to put it up online.

[SSbaby]

I think that if Holden do come out with a 300kW SS, depreciation won't be not immune to FPV either, purely from the point of view that HSV and FPV are both direct competitors. Do members here recall how Tickford's depreciation values and sales suffered in comparision to HSV's when the LS1 was first introduced?

GTS resales were also strong for a time... then when people were editing their LS1s and having superior numbers than C4B... the sales nosedived and so too depreciation.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by ltd

I can. Mercs or BMW's that have that much power are prohibitavely costly, meaning that your average hoon can't afford to get behind the wheel. If you make it so that any idiot with 50 grand can get behind the wheel of something that powerful then the horror high speed smashes witnessed today in cars like the WRX and Nissan GT's are easily going to transcend down the line to Aussie V8's.

Given the fact that Holden drivers are typically more inclined to be hoons and behave more like a yobbo than an intelligent person, I can only foresee a higher representation of commodores in street racing, ramraids and high speed smashes from little Ahmed losing it on his P's.

Thanks for clearing that up, I didn't realize driver skill was based on the salary of the driver... Now I understand, thank you. Gee if we all just get payrises, the world will become a safer place!

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Thanks for clearing that up, I didn't realize driver skill was based on the salary of the driver... Now I understand, thank you. Gee if we all just get payrises, the world will become a safer place!

Driver skill no, but demographs yes - I would doubt not many BMW M5s or E55 AMGs do burnouts on public roads. Wealthier demographs tend to be more law abiding. :

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Driver skill no, but demographs yes - I would doubt not many BMW M5s or E55 AMGs do burnouts on public roads. Wealthier demographs tend to be more law abiding. :

I agree, the demographic of the consumer can be a GENERAL guide to attitude and behaviour.
Its not perfect but its a guide, as said someone who spends 150K on a car isn't likely to add 3 subs, a blow off valve and do "fully sic" burnouts everywhere while draging every second guy at the lights..

[ltd]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Thanks for clearing that up, I didn't realize driver skill was based on the salary of the driver... Now I understand, thank you. Gee if we all just get payrises, the world will become a safer place!

Try this on for size.

Salary is by in large proportional to age and maturity, ie. If someone can afford to spend 200k on a car with 300kw plus, they are likely to be a little more mature and not absolutely thrash the death out of their 200k investment. Contrarily, some relatively inexperienced hot head buys a 50k commonwhore with little regard to their investment, and ends up dragging every car at the lights, weaving in and out of traffic, and speeding on every road they can. Who is more inclined to lose it or have an accident?

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by ltd

If ignorance is bliss then you my friend must be orgasmic.

Try this on for size.

Salary is by in large proportional to age and maturity, ie. If someone can afford to spend 200k on a car with 300kw plus, they are likely to be a little more mature and not absolutely thrash the death out of their 200k investment. Contrarily, some relatively inexperienced hot head buys a 50k commonwhore with little regard to their investment, and ends up dragging every car at the lights, weaving in and out of traffic, and speeding on every road they can. Who is more inclined to lose it or have an accident?

Next time before you patronise one of my posts, try rubbing your two IQ points together and see if they start a fire.

Ouch! Just use personal attacks, if it makes you feel any better.