Aussie vs import

[paulie]

Ive read alot of comments on how people say.

"How can they justify that price?.... its just a falcon/commodore...?"
"There's better out there (bmw, audi etc) for that sort of $$$"

But id like to know how many of these "better" cars are holding up here.

I was called an idiot for spending the $$ i did on an over priced falcon (GT) when i bought it and told for a bit extra i could have got a better car by bmw etc.

But recently ive been looking around at audi and bmw etc i park next to and i must say.
what a pile of crap.

Window rubbers peeling and perishing.
paint fade like no tomorrow
And plastic interior that has started to go hard and brittle already.
and these are 2010 ish cars.....

They may be a more refined vehicle. But definitely not in the same league as the aussie cars for last-ability. They're not designed for our climate etc.
Sure they have been "tested" here. But they haven't followed it up.
Atleast ford and holden australia could see how their own were holding up (or not) and made adjustments to what they used etc.

Guess ill just have to buy a new aussie made car and store it away for a while til i need to "upgrade" my current ride.
As half the stuff coming in seems to be cheap nasty crap.

[Nikked]

Still had issue with Aussie cars...like:

Window rubbers peeling and perishing.
paint fade like no tomorrow
And plastic interior that has started to go hard and brittle

My ED, EL & AU suffered any of these.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Still had issue with Aussie cars...like:

Window rubbers peeling and perishing.
paint fade like no tomorrow
And plastic interior that has started to go hard and brittle

My ED, EL & AU suffered any of these.

All cars had paint fade around the world around the time they started taking the lead out of the paint. Just like all air conditioners sucked when they switched from R12 to R134a.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Still had issue with Aussie cars...like:

Window rubbers peeling and perishing.
paint fade like no tomorrow
And plastic interior that has started to go hard and brittle

My ED, EL & AU suffered any of these.

Bought a grand new G6E at the start of 2011...driver seat mechanism quickly failed, driveshaft to diff seal leaked like a sieve, carpets were loose in some places, various other little noises and creaks and groans, cheap plastics in the interior...all from a "prestige" brand new fifty grand car. But hey, it was Aussie Aussie Aussie!!!!

European cars suffer from three fatal flaw in this country...predatory protectionist taxation on pricing, distance from source country, and because they are cars that, overseas, are just family cars and taxis but have to be sold here as "luxury prestige cars" and priced accordingly, the servicing is through the roof.

[GazzF6]

Nothing wrong with Euro cars other than the high price..
This thanks to import quotas ( Merc) + LCT + Import Tax.

This will change once local manufacture is gone, cheaper more realistic pricing will no doubt prevail.

[paulie]

At what age tho?

Im seeing cars less than 5yr old showing these signs.

[Trump]

Pointless thread is pointless...

[Vesper Martini]

Are you saying BMW's & Audi's are cheap nasty crap? that's a first.

Pictures please! of the circa 2010 Euros with faded paint & perished window rubbers

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Are you saying BMW's & Audi's are cheap nasty crap? that's a first.

Pictures please! of the circa 2010 Euros with faded paint & perished window rubbers

Have a good look around.
My old XR5 Turbo had not perished rubber quality rubbers around the windows, my ST has it too. A mate that did some paint correction on my ST has a 2013 RS6 it has a similar type, i know my focus is high end but its euro, the RS6 on the other hand.

Im nit picking though re XR5/ST there hasnt been many quality issues with either of mine. But there are some that are full of problems, my mate owns one and i dunno how he hasnt set fire to it

[paulie]

Check your local shop centre car park.
They're everywhere.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by paulie

Check your local shop centre car park.
They're everywhere.

Yea I look at cars in the car parks, you right some of these car do like crap including the aussie made ones, your point!

Comes down to how well the owners look after their pride & joy.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by paulie

Check your local shop centre car park.
They're everywhere.

I don't see any circa 2010 BMW's with such issues, are you mistaken for 2000 models of which I see a few, but then you are comparing to AU Falcons....

[GO FURTHER]

The first advice I give friends wanting to get a Euro such as BMW, Audi, Benz, and especially those thinking of buying an ex-lease "just-out-of-warranty" is....

You may be able to afford the car.... But can you afford the horrendous service, spare parts and repairs!

Falcons are cheap to repair in comparison.

My boss had a small Audi A3 .... Cost $3,000 for the 60,000Km service which inlcluded machining the rotors and brakes!

And good luck trying to afford a replacement auto transmission of $15,000 plus on BMW if it fails out of warranty.

BMW's, Audi's and Mercs are usually leased by professionals and businessmen that swap them over as soon as the lease / warranty is up so never have to worry about expensive out of warranty repairs.... Can you afford to do the same?

If you are an average working class family man .... Stick with your Ford and Holdens and be happy.

[FG50T]

Originally Posted by BAXRSIX

The first advice I give friends wanting to get a Euro such as BMW, Audi, Benz, and especially those thinking of buying an ex-lease "just-out-of-warranty" is....

You may be able to afford the car.... But can you afford the horrendous service, spare parts and repairs!

Falcons are cheap to repair in comparison.

My boss had a small Audi A3 .... Cost $3,000 for the 60,000Km service which inlcluded machining the rotors and brakes!

And good luck trying to afford a replacement auto transmission of $15,000 plus on BMW if it fails out of warranty.

BMW's, Audi's and Mercs are usually leased by professionals and businessmen that swap them over as soon as the lease / warranty is up so never have to worry about expensive out of warranty repairs.... Can you afford to do the same?

If you are an average working class family man .... Stick with your Ford and Holdens and be happy.

I can get a genuine 4cyl BMW 6 speed auto landed at my door for $940 or a 6cyl turbo 6 speed for $1160 in "used but excellent condition" off ebay. Just saying...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BAXRSIX

The first advice I give friends wanting to get a Euro such as BMW, Audi, Benz, and especially those thinking of buying an ex-lease "just-out-of-warranty" is....

You may be able to afford the car.... But can you afford the horrendous service, spare parts and repairs!

Falcons are cheap to repair in comparison.

My boss had a small Audi A3 .... Cost $3,000 for the 60,000Km service which inlcluded machining the rotors and brakes!

And good luck trying to afford a replacement auto transmission of $15,000 plus on BMW if it fails out of warranty.

BMW's, Audi's and Mercs are usually leased by professionals and businessmen that swap them over as soon as the lease / warranty is up so never have to worry about expensive out of warranty repairs.... Can you afford to do the same?

If you are an average working class family man .... Stick with your Ford and Holdens and be happy.

I own an E38 7 series, to put costs into perspective, 8x ignition coils, 8x spark plugs, two CMPs and a new throttle body assembly was $2500.

New alternator was $2400 for the Bosch one or $1100 for aftermarket.

The power steering hoses were $600.

And a rear shock is over $1000 a pop.

Mind you, lower control arms with new bush and ball joint, only $90 each

It was a $175K car in 2001, about $100K more than an LTD at the time.

LTD is 90% of the car.

You don't know what you got until you lose it.

[Swordie]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I own an E38 7 series

One of my favorite BMWs. Cool looking car.

[ryanstev]

I had a 1999 Subaru Legacy, twin turbo, it was 17 years old when it got written off and I owned it for almost exactly 8 years.
In that time it:
1. Burst a couple water hoses, due to a plugged overflow pipe.
2. A couple oil leaks, included main seal.
Both of those happened in 2012, when it was 13 years old.

I think I washed the car 5 times since owning it, it never rusted, never had any peeling paint. The car lived outside for the last 8 years of its life.

Since then I bought a 2005 BA Mk2 (last year) it got written off after 6 months by someone rear ending me, so it was too soon to notice many faults, but it had:
1. No paint on the edges of the bonnet and boot closest to the windscreen and none on the front edge of the gas flap (WTF)
2. Rust developing on the driver's side corner of the boot, under the window
3. The terrible bonnet release, which was broken and the fusebox was broken too
4. The silver coating on the transmission stick and surround was peeled off and gone

I've now got a 2006 BF, it has:
1. Rust developing on the driver's side corner of the boot, under the window
2. Center hanging bearing completely let go
3. Window washer squirters are *crap*
4. Bubbling silver coating on the door armrests

I love the engine and that's the only reason I bought the BF, if I could buy a brand new one and get rid of it before it gets too old, I'd be happy with it.

[Sabantien]

Admittedly there's 2 years difference between my FG and my girl's A1, but cosmetically the Audi is crapping all over the Falcon. Still looks amazing, despite her treating it like rubbish.

[xisled]

I guess if I wanted to prove everyone wrong i would try and find defects and such in car parks. Would even take pictures to prove it. ROFL

[GTP534]

I had an FG FPV R-Spec and some of the detail on the FG was world class in my opinion. The door and window sealing is very well executed and there were no jagged or rough looking folds where the outer door panels met the inside skin. Miles ahead of the BA GTP I had.

Might be hard to picture but just open the door and rub your hand along the door edges.

My Mustang by comparison is rough-as in the same areas "under the skin" but having said that feels just as solid and better planted on the road. My vehicles are garaged but time will tell how the Mustang ages.

Ford Australia should be very proud of what they achieved, amazing really considering their budgets.

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by GTP534

Ford Australia should be very proud of what they achieved, amazing really considering their budgets.

^^^ This x 100

Exactly right.

I've mentioned it on here before, but when a work colleague who is a tragic for buying 10 year old Mercs questioned why I would buy an FG, when I could buy a nice (older) Merc for the same money.

I told him there's no way in hell I'd have an older Merc that could well have many issues and been offloaded because of that. He laughed & said "so you buy taxi instead"

German colleague overhearing this piped up "In my country, Mercedes Benz is Taxi" - absolutely shutting him down.

Ironically, 5-6 years on, he no longer has any Mercs - he's converted to Toyotas, after his last E-series developed an ABS fault that was quoted at $3500 to fix using wrecker parts (or over $9K from a dealer and a 3 months wait for new parts).

I've also got enough friends who run workshops or wreckers who deal in this on a daily basis, and big bills are quite common, especially after the warranty ends, and far more common than on Aussie or Asian cars. It's not every Euro thaty has an issue, but a higher proportion of them that cost owners dearly.

It's like playing lotto - some will have a faultless run, whilst others will have nothing but problems. The proportion of problems, and costs, seem to be much higher in older Euros. And some younger ones to - like $17K to rebuild a BMW-engined Mini that smashed it's timing chains & guides - out of warranty time-wise, but still ultra-low km, and serviced every 12 months (less than 3000km/yr).


Clever marketing over many years by the likes of BMW & Merc, importing only the mid & high luxury levels has created a false impression of the true "prestige" levels of these cars, and badge snobbery has driven it even further.

Those who grew up with them in Germany and other first-world Euro countries know full well the base models over there are just like our Commodores & Falcons - but they were never exported over here. If Ford only sold Fairmont Ghias & Fairlanes, where would the buying public see them?

And for those old enough to remember. Aussie cars had vinyl seats into the early 80s. Mercedes Benz called their vinyl "MB-Tex" - and got away with it for decades longer...... So tell me, why would you buy a "prestige" car with vinyl seats??

[Dave1966]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

^^^ This x 100

Exactly right.

I've mentioned it on here before, but when a work colleague who is a tragic for buying 10 year old Mercs questioned why I would buy an FG, when I could buy a nice (older) Merc for the same money.

I told him there's no way in hell I'd have an older Merc that could well have many issues and been offloaded because of that. He laughed & said "so you buy taxi instead"

German colleague overhearing this piped up "In my country, Mercedes Benz is Taxi" - absolutely shutting him down.

Ironically, 5-6 years on, he no longer has any Mercs - he's converted to Toyotas, after his last E-series developed an ABS fault that was quoted at $3500 to fix using wrecker parts (or over $9K from a dealer and a 3 months wait for new parts).

I've also got enough friends who run workshops or wreckers who deal in this on a daily basis, and big bills are quite common, especially after the warranty ends, and far more common than on Aussie or Asian cars. It's not every Euro thaty has an issue, but a higher proportion of them that cost owners dearly.

It's like playing lotto - some will have a faultless run, whilst others will have nothing but problems. The proportion of problems, and costs, seem to be much higher in older Euros. And some younger ones to - like $17K to rebuild a BMW-engined Mini that smashed it's timing chains & guides - out of warranty time-wise, but still ultra-low km, and serviced every 12 months (less than 3000km/yr).


Clever marketing over many years by the likes of BMW & Merc, importing only the mid & high luxury levels has created a false impression of the true "prestige" levels of these cars, and badge snobbery has driven it even further.

Those who grew up with them in Germany and other first-world Euro countries know full well the base models over there are just like our Commodores & Falcons - but they were never exported over here. If Ford only sold Fairmont Ghias & Fairlanes, where would the buying public see them?

And for those old enough to remember. Aussie cars had vinyl seats into the early 80s. Mercedes Benz called their vinyl "MB-Tex" - and got away with it for decades longer...... So tell me, why would you buy a "prestige" car with vinyl seats??

Spot on,clever marketing.I guess they have to do something coz the prices we pay here need to be justified,people take the bait and think they are getting a luxury and superior type of car. MB is a mass production car used in fleets and taxis like many other mass production unit. The latest drama I saw was a trans rebuild on a euro SUV. They couldn't find a rebuild kit that was correct so he sat down for hours working out what was what and ended up buying two kits to get everything he needed which was still cheaper tha genuine,time and labour lost that he can't charge the customer,lesson learned.The best modern stuff seems to the the jappas in my book.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Dave1966

Spot on,clever marketing.I guess they have to do something coz the prices we pay here need to be justified,people take the bait and think they are getting a luxury and superior type of car. MB is a mass production car used in fleets and taxis like many other mass production unit.

They are superior. Check the spec sheets. Taxi spec Mercs in Europe are not the same as the fully equipped Mercs we get here.

In any event, I'd much rather have a taxi-spec Merc than a taxi-spec Camry. The Merc will be far better built, for a start.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by NX74205

They are superior. Check the spec sheets. Taxi spec Mercs in Europe are not the same as the fully equipped Mercs we get here.

In any event, I'd much rather have a taxi-spec Merc than a taxi-spec Camry. The Merc will be far better built, for a start.

Camrys might not be a lot of things but they are well built.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

^^^ This x 100

Exactly right.

I've mentioned it on here before, but when a work colleague who is a tragic for buying 10 year old Mercs questioned why I would buy an FG, when I could buy a nice (older) Merc for the same money.

I told him there's no way in hell I'd have an older Merc that could well have many issues and been offloaded because of that. He laughed & said "so you buy taxi instead"

German colleague overhearing this piped up "In my country, Mercedes Benz is Taxi" - absolutely shutting him down.

Ironically, 5-6 years on, he no longer has any Mercs - he's converted to Toyotas, after his last E-series developed an ABS fault that was quoted at $3500 to fix using wrecker parts (or over $9K from a dealer and a 3 months wait for new parts).

I've also got enough friends who run workshops or wreckers who deal in this on a daily basis, and big bills are quite common, especially after the warranty ends, and far more common than on Aussie or Asian cars. It's not every Euro thaty has an issue, but a higher proportion of them that cost owners dearly.

It's like playing lotto - some will have a faultless run, whilst others will have nothing but problems. The proportion of problems, and costs, seem to be much higher in older Euros. And some younger ones to - like $17K to rebuild a BMW-engined Mini that smashed it's timing chains & guides - out of warranty time-wise, but still ultra-low km, and serviced every 12 months (less than 3000km/yr).


Clever marketing over many years by the likes of BMW & Merc, importing only the mid & high luxury levels has created a false impression of the true "prestige" levels of these cars, and badge snobbery has driven it even further.

Those who grew up with them in Germany and other first-world Euro countries know full well the base models over there are just like our Commodores & Falcons - but they were never exported over here. If Ford only sold Fairmont Ghias & Fairlanes, where would the buying public see them?

And for those old enough to remember. Aussie cars had vinyl seats into the early 80s. Mercedes Benz called their vinyl "MB-Tex" - and got away with it for decades longer...... So tell me, why would you buy a "prestige" car with vinyl seats??

MB tex was base model. Back then velour was the option to have and something the local stuff didn't offer.

But the part that made MB stand out from the locals late 1960s/early 70s was the fuel injection, four speed auto, independent suspension, twin cam, several hundred thousand km ruggedness (w123, 108, 114, 116, 126, 124) and the quality that no local car has ever come near.
In fact the Euro spec 2.8 injected entry model from 1972 has more power than the VN Commo while the wheezer and 5.0 Holden with their 160kw into the 21st century had less power than the 4.5 V8 S Class from 1972 speaks for itself.

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by smoo

MB tex was base model. Back then velour was the option to have and something the local stuff didn't offer.

But the part that made MB stand out from the locals late 1960s/early 70s was the fuel injection, four speed auto, independent suspension, twin cam, several hundred thousand km ruggedness (w123, 108, 114, 116, 126, 124) and the quality that no local car has ever come near.
In fact the Euro spec 2.8 injected entry model from 1972 has more power than the VN Commo while the wheezer and 5.0 Holden with their 160kw into the 21st century had less power than the 4.5 V8 S Class from 1972 speaks for itself.

MB-Tex was still being used in 1990! Locals dumped vinyl from base models, replacing it with standard cloth (ribbed velour in Holden's case) in 82/83 during VH Commodore & XE Falcon model runs! Rose-coloured 3-pointed star glasses much?

I had to work on the wiring on a 450SEL once. It was a 1979 model, getting a conversion. Funny how it went better & used far less fuel after the tired old (cutting edge?) V8 was tossed out & replaced by a 3.8L VN V6 commodore engine & 4 speed auto.
Fully engineered, that conversion cost less than getting the heads reco'd on a 200,000km motor that had the stellite valve seats sunken into the soft alloy..... but they're so rugged right?

And so much for cutting edge technology - when Chevrolet were offering TPI on base V8s in the mid 80s, MB were still persisting with electro-mechanical FI (Bosch K-jetronic) until 86/87 on the flagship V8s in the S-class - oh, and that 5.0L V8 barely produced more than a VN 5.0L, despite having OHC and costing 5x as much..... Hell even the XE Falcon in 83 had moved on to L-Jetronic multi-point EFI

I'm yet to see a MB with over 250k on the odometer, that hasn't had 5 figure sums spent on repairs. Plenty of local large cars have managed double that with far lower maintenance & repair costs, and if they do break down miles away from a dealer, most mechanics can fix a local, but won't touch a euro. In fact, several workshops run by friends & family friends won't touch euros at all - German and French.

There's a reason why a 2005 BMW 3-series can be bought for the same price as a 2005 Corolla with similar km and in similar condition, and you don't need to be Einstein to see it.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

MB-Tex was still being used in 1990! Locals dumped vinyl from base models, replacing it with standard cloth (ribbed velour in Holden's case) in 82/83 during VH Commodore & XE Falcon model runs! Rose-coloured 3-pointed star glasses much?

I had to work on the wiring on a 450SEL once. It was a 1979 model, getting a conversion. Funny how it went better & used far less fuel after the tired old (cutting edge?) V8 was tossed out & replaced by a 3.8L VN V6 commodore engine & 4 speed auto.
Fully engineered, that conversion cost less than getting the heads reco'd on a 200,000km motor that had the stellite valve seats sunken into the soft alloy..... but they're so rugged right?

And so much for cutting edge technology - when Chevrolet were offering TPI on base V8s in the mid 80s, MB were still persisting with electro-mechanical FI (Bosch K-jetronic) until 86/87 on the flagship V8s in the S-class - oh, and that 5.0L V8 barely produced more than a VN 5.0L, despite having OHC and costing 5x as much..... Hell even the XE Falcon in 83 had moved on to L-Jetronic multi-point EFI

I'm yet to see a MB with over 250k on the odometer, that hasn't had 5 figure sums spent on repairs. Plenty of local large cars have managed double that with far lower maintenance & repair costs, and if they do break down miles away from a dealer, most mechanics can fix a local, but won't touch a euro. In fact, several workshops run by friends & family friends won't touch euros at all - German and French.

There's a reason why a 2005 BMW 3-series can be bought for the same price as a 2005 Corolla with similar km and in similar condition, and you don't need to be Einstein to see it.

Rose coloured glasses, too right. After owning them, BMWs and Falcons for nearly fifteen years it's hard not to.
You'd be the first to deny the older Benz are near bullet proof. Timing chains and valve guide seals are common but hasn't retired them from service in the third world. The old V8 was not cutting edge for the 70s but well ahead of most manufacturers as far as tech goes.
The 126 500se were pushing 200kw and the top of the line 560s were 220kw which in 1986 there were only a handful of cars with more power than that and well above the flimsy VN. Have in mind the V8s were at the end of their twenty year life and were about to be replaced so why would MB go to lengths to change the injection set up!
For 1991 the new L Jetronic 5.0 V8 is a beast of a motor. My old 140 S500 had more low down torque than both my old BA Fairlane 5.4 3v and FG Boss 290, while returning the same open road economy as the FG XR8 despite weighing 400kg more, having two less gears and not felling like the interior is about to fall to bits every time I pull the door shut!

Re your last paragraph. Yes there is a Toyota tax. I'm no Einstein but does that same reason you think of apply to the non existent resale figures of local stuff as well?!

[Sox]

We have a few Falcons and an E36 Beemer.

The beemer has nearly 320k and has cost us bugger all.

Some parts are a little pricey, others are not much more than a Falcon.

It's easy to work on and has no more durability issues than my local stuff.

Exterior rubbers are looking a bit ratty, but it is a 96 model, to be expected.

[Spammy]

I have had Fiats, Alfas, BMWs, Range Rovers and Subarus...none of them had rust issues in the first 24 months like my Territory did.

The Territory build quailty felt like a step back in time of 20 years coming from a Subi.

[Wretched]

Having had a couple of local cars (BA/BF2) and an import, my experiences have shown that between the two both have positives and negatives.
One thing I have noticed though, the "built for Aussie conditions" is a load of bollocks.

The Falcons were reasonably well built but had quality niggles. The sealing was quite good around the doors but the interior was really poor and by the 2nd year of ownership for both there was severe cracking on the dash and the steering wheel was very badly worn. Parts wise, only the brakes on the Falcon were cheaper than my Focus, but then they were never anywhere near as good in feel or quality. The only thing the Focus is let down by is a poor air con, but the rest including interior fit and finish was far superior.

However in saying that, my partner's Mazda 3 trumps them all for quality and cost to run. It is faultless.