Constant lane changing in heavy traffic a big cause of freeway crashes: VicRoads

[Bill M]

How to discourage it?

VicRoads has studied the correlation between crashes and lane-changing behaviour on Melbourne's busiest freeway, the Monash.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/co...08-gtnpni.html

[commodorenutt]

You won't stop the idiots who just have to be 1 car space ahead, at any cost.

It needs a wholesale change of attitude towards driving, and other drivers, leaving the selfishness & arrogance at home. That's why it will never happen.

[Franco Cozzo]

Poor lane discipline, the problem is its a 4 lane freeway and you get a bunch of douches driving slow in three of the 4 lanes creating a rolling roadblock.

So people chop and change lanes to get around them.

Not only that but a big section of it is 80km/h, they widened it and dropped the speed limit from 100 to 80, whats the point?

I'm aware in peak times you won't get close to 80 but in non peak times its a PITFA.

Then they want to reduce the speed limit on the Tullamarine Freeway to 80km/h after the widening is complete? Why bother widening it then? Just leave it as it is and leave it to 100km/h.

[foxtrot3]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Poor lane discipline, the problem is its a 4 lane freeway and you get a bunch of douches driving slow in three of the 4 lanes creating a rolling roadblock.

So people chop and change lanes to get around them.

Not only that but a big section of it is 80km/h, they widened it and dropped the speed limit from 100 to 80, whats the point?

I'm aware in peak times you won't get close to 80 but in non peak times its a PITFA.

Then they want to reduce the speed limit on the Tullamarine Freeway to 80km/h after the widening is complete? Why bother widening it then? Just leave it as it is and leave it to 100km/h.

Hi. Most of it is 100 kph (for cars), always been 80k from high st overpass but that has become a variable speed limit to yarra bend exit inbound and from yarra bend on ramp to high st. Problem spots at the moment are inbound to and outbound from eastlink with a lot of 80k sections for roadworks and both directions between Jacksons rd and Huntingdale rd where trucks are limited to 90k but have no lane restrictions placed on them (WTF were vicroads thinking), because of this you now get trucks that that do any speed between 110k (I,m not really a truck) down to 70k (older big rigs that start at 90k but have fallen out of the peak torque band on some of the climbs). Now add in people on phones or dont know what exit the want or wont drive over 80k because their eyeballs will explode along with cars that seem to do 95 ks every where (because the speedo says 100) and people who are on the road all the time who use a GPS to track their speed (and sit on 99 to 101 ks) and tell me that you dont need to change lanes just to get anywhere. Cheers MD

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Poor lane discipline, the problem is its a 4 lane freeway and you get a bunch of douches driving slow in three of the 4 lanes creating a rolling roadblock.

So people chop and change lanes to get around them.

Not only that but a big section of it is 80km/h, they widened it and dropped the speed limit from 100 to 80, whats the point?

I'm aware in peak times you won't get close to 80 but in non peak times its a PITFA.

Then they want to reduce the speed limit on the Tullamarine Freeway to 80km/h after the widening is complete? Why bother widening it then? Just leave it as it is and leave it to 100km/h.

This.

The only way to stop this behaviour is to put tasers in all Toyota products. It will zap the driver if he drops below the posted limit in all lanes bar the right; if he somehow finds himself in the right lane, instant zap regardless of speed until they move back into the other lanes

[Ansimp]

Increase the speed limits Vic roads and police keeping left more, then there would be no need to constantly change lanes!
Actually all states could benefit from this......

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by Ansimp

Increase the speed limits Vic roads and police keeping left more, then there would be no need to constantly change lanes!
Actually all states could benefit from this......

There are very large signs on multi lane roads in Qld advising "KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING" yet the majority of empty heads drive in the far right lane ... I've observed Police cars doing this, so what hope is there?

[railtrolley]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Poor lane discipline, the problem is its a 4 lane freeway and you get a bunch of douches driving slow in three of the 4 lanes creating a rolling roadblock.

So people chop and change lanes to get around them.

Not only that but a big section of it is 80km/h, they widened it and dropped the speed limit from 100 to 80, whats the point?

I'm aware in peak times you won't get close to 80 but in non peak times its a PITFA.

Then they want to reduce the speed limit on the Tullamarine Freeway to 80km/h after the widening is complete? Why bother widening it then? Just leave it as it is and leave it to 100km/h.

These freeways in Melbourne are being widened the cheap way. Add an extra lane by converting the emergency stop lane to a running lane, but not keeping an emergency stop lane. Without the emergency stop lane, the freeway speed limit cannot be 100km/h, too dangerous I s'pose, so the limits are dropped to 80km/h.

Remember years ago when the Westgate bridge was 100km/h? It was widened to 4 lanes and no longer had an emergency stop lane, so it was dropped to 80km/h. Now it is 5 lanes.

Besides this lane changing my pet peeve is driver's who go on the freeway with insufficient fuel and run out -causing a totally unnecessary hold up.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by railtrolley

These freeways in Melbourne are being widened the cheap way. Add an extra lane by converting the emergency stop lane to a running lane, but not keeping an emergency stop lane. Without the emergency stop lane, the freeway speed limit cannot be 100km/h, too dangerous I s'pose, so the limits are dropped to 80km/h.

Remember years ago when the Westgate bridge was 100km/h? It was widened to 4 lanes and no longer had an emergency stop lane, so it was dropped to 80km/h. Now it is 5 lanes.

Besides this lane changing my pet peeve is driver's who go on the freeway with insufficient fuel and run out -causing a totally unnecessary hold up.

Yes that's what I heard, my idea would be to utilise the lane speed signs they have and make an emergency lane in off peak periods, therefore lift the speed limit.

[stig_3754]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Yes that's what I heard, my idea would be to utilise the lane speed signs they have and make an emergency lane in off peak periods, therefore lift the speed limit.

The only issue with that is keeping the smartasses off the emergency lane when it's active, otherwise I think that's an ideal solution. Or instead of making the limit 80km/h as they do now, make it 90km/h for off-peak times and don't remove the lane. 80km/h seems a bit excessive in off-peak times IMO.

[kcodezd]

You can't get a speeding ticket if your only doing 85kph in a 100 zone, but if it's a 80 zone. Thanks for the revenue.

[Silver Ghia]

A big reason for drivers changing lanes frequently, is due to the left lanes opening up then closing all the time, especially at freeway exits/entrances. Try staying in the left lane, its near impossible with all the traffic continually changing lanes in front and behind you, and the lanes finishing all the time. Anyone entering the freeway has to change across at least one or two lanes before there is some traffic flow. This mayhem encourages drivers to stay in the right lanes.

Ever driven on a British motorway? When entering, the lane you're in continues on so there is no reason to change lanes. Its the rightmost lane that closes further up, so the rightmost lane traffic needs to change lanes. Makes for much safer safer entries / exits of motorways, and encourages drivers to stay in the left lanes.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Ever driven on a British motorway? When entering, the lane you're in continues on so there is no reason to change lanes. Its the rightmost lane that closes further up, so the rightmost lane traffic needs to change lanes. Makes for much safer safer entries / exits of motorways, and encourages drivers to stay in the left lanes.

I remember this & found it works really well, that and drivers are happy to move over to let somebody past if they want to go faster.

Over here there is some sort of Vigilante attitude that makes people sit in the right lane at 99kph, and they start flapping their arms or shaking their head if you left lane them..

[XWGT]

Its because "Keep Left unless Overtaking" is considered optional in this country and NEVER enforced by police. People now actively use the inside lane as an undertaking lane. Do this in Europe and you will be dragged out of your car through the windscreen. And thats before the cops get to you.
Our driving attitudes are appalling and our skill base seems to be dropping rapidly.
Watching people trying to enter and merge cleanly on a freeway these days is like watching a penguin try and find its knees............bloody painful.

[Bill M]

While in the US recently they appeared to have better lane discipline than we have here. From my observations on Melbourne freeways driving has become more impulsive, see a space and grab it regardless no matter what lane you are in.

There are more multiple car pileups now than there ever used to be due to this cluster *$#@ driving style. Throw in more in car distractions to the mix as well.

I don't buy the line that it is beyond changing, if there is the political will and bipartisan support then you can establish change in attitude with a long term educational campaign coupled with a big penalty stick that is strictly enforced.

Safe travels,
Bill.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by XWGT

People now actively use the inside lane as an undertaking lane.

I don't think there's anything wrong with "undertaking", personally. I'm aware it's illegal in most of the rest of the world, but the way I see it, if people are slow, I'm going to get around them any which way I can.

If people are paying attention to their surroundings, it wouldn't be a problem.

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by NX74205

I don't think there's anything wrong with "undertaking", personally. I'm aware it's illegal in most of the rest of the world, but the way I see it, if people are slow, I'm going to get around them any which way I can.

If people are paying attention to their surroundings, it wouldn't be a problem.

The problem is you are in the biggest blind spot of the vehicle in front of you and behaving in an unexpected manner so your amping the risk factors right up.
The reason we use rules and regulations is to try and create some certainty around how people act and react. So when you do something that is not expected and illegal your simply increase the risk of an accident markedly. Its like going through a stop sign. It will work for awhile but eventually someone will not register your unexpected behavior in time and clean you up.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by XWGT

The problem is you are in the biggest blind spot of the vehicle in front of you and behaving in an unexpected manner so your amping the risk factors right up.
The reason we use rules and regulations is to try and create some certainty around how people act and react. So when you do something that is not expected and illegal your simply increase the risk of an accident markedly. Its like going through a stop sign. It will work for awhile but eventually someone will not register your unexpected behavior in time and clean you up.

What that poster described isn't undertaking (in the australian road rules anyway) or illegal
Its simply passing on the left, and completely legal in a marked lane.

Its when it is unmarked lanes where it becomes undertaking.

We also have a thing called common sense (not so common anymore) where if you cant or wont travel at the speed limit, you move left. Then the people who wish to travel at the maximum allowable speed can continue past you with no issues.

I know thats what i do if for any reason i dont want to do the speed limit (stay out of the right lanes)

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

What that poster described isn't undertaking (in the australian road rules anyway) or illegal
Its simply passing on the left, and completely legal in a marked lane.

Its when it is unmarked lanes where it becomes undertaking.

We also have a thing called common sense (not so common anymore) where if you cant or wont travel at the speed limit, you move left. Then the people who wish to travel at the maximum allowable speed can continue past you with no issues.

I know thats what i do if for any reason i dont want to do the speed limit (stay out of the right lanes)

Road rule 141 makes this true on a multi-lane road.
However if people observed rule 130, then passing on the left would only occur in bumper to bumper traffic.

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by XWGT

The problem is you are in the biggest blind spot of the vehicle in front of you and behaving in an unexpected manner so your amping the risk factors right up.

If people adjusted their side mirrors correctly then there isn't any blind spot on a car. Side mirrors are not for seeing what is directly behind you, that is what your windscreen mounted rear view mirror is for. Side mirrors should be adjusted out to see into the next lane, exactly where the "blind spot" is. When side mirrors are adjusted correctly you shouldn't be able to see your own car in the mirror!

When reversing and wanting to see down the side of the car then you just tilt your head slightly to the side and you can see the gate post or whatever you are trying to avoid.

And I would bet 95% of all drivers have them set up wrongly.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by NTF6

If people adjusted their side mirrors correctly then there isn't any blind spot on a car. Side mirrors are not for seeing what is directly behind you, that is what your windscreen mounted rear view mirror is for. Side mirrors should be adjusted out to see into the next lane, exactly where the "blind spot" is. When side mirrors are adjusted correctly you shouldn't be able to see your own car in the mirror!

When reversing and wanting to see down the side of the car then you just tilt your head slightly to the side and you can see the gate post or whatever you are trying to avoid.

And I would bet 95% of all drivers have them set up wrongly.

I disagree side mirrors are to see what's behind you, not in the lane next to you... Think of trucks, vans & large trailers that render the windscreen mirror useless.

I have additional wide angle mirrors fitted which nearly cover it all but you still need to turn your head but probably more so for the drivers side

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by NTF6

If people adjusted their side mirrors correctly then there isn't any blind spot on a car. Side mirrors are not for seeing what is directly behind you, that is what your windscreen mounted rear view mirror is for. Side mirrors should be adjusted out to see into the next lane, exactly where the "blind spot" is. When side mirrors are adjusted correctly you shouldn't be able to see your own car in the mirror!

Yep, every time we go to a capital city both outside mirrors get moved from the 'what's behind me' position, to the 'what's in the next lane' position.

Waste of time using three mirrors to see behind you.............unless you've got a trailer on

[GT450]

Originally Posted by NTF6

If people adjusted their side mirrors correctly then there isn't any blind spot on a car. Side mirrors are not for seeing what is directly behind you, that is what your windscreen mounted rear view mirror is for. Side mirrors should be adjusted out to see into the next lane, exactly where the "blind spot" is. When side mirrors are adjusted correctly you shouldn't be able to see your own car in the mirror!

When reversing and wanting to see down the side of the car then you just tilt your head slightly to the side and you can see the gate post or whatever you are trying to avoid.

And I would bet 95% of all drivers have them set up wrongly.

The fist thing they teach you on your defensive driving course is to adjust your seats and mirrors correctly so you can effectively control and see as much as possible. And yes most drivers have them adjusted incorrectly.
GT450

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by NTF6

If people adjusted their side mirrors correctly then there isn't any blind spot on a car. Side mirrors are not for seeing what is directly behind you, that is what your windscreen mounted rear view mirror is for. Side mirrors should be adjusted out to see into the next lane, exactly where the "blind spot" is. When side mirrors are adjusted correctly you shouldn't be able to see your own car in the mirror!

When reversing and wanting to see down the side of the car then you just tilt your head slightly to the side and you can see the gate post or whatever you are trying to avoid.

And I would bet 95% of all drivers have them set up wrongly.

Well mate that is a load of crap, if you do tow with a trailer or van then your set up is illegal, think you should look up how side mirrors should be set up, you should be able to see your rear corners of your own vehicle or trailer/van.

[HyperXH]

I agree blitz the people cruising in the right hand lane.
Driving under the speed limit can cause accidents just as much as driving over the limit. Definitely inattention on the driver's behalf and frustration for the other drivers which can lead to more risk taking.

[simon varley]

passing on the left is legal in Victoria if it is in a marked lane

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by simon varley

passing on the left is legal in Victoria if it is in a marked lane

Are you sure of that? If that is so why do we have the keep left unless overtaking rule?

[Adamz Ghia]

Given how many people do 5k under in the right lane it's hard not to undertake them.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Are you sure of that? If that is so why do we have the keep left unless overtaking rule?

Apparently so.....

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/v...9208/s141.html

ROAD SAFETY ROAD RULES 2009 - REG 141
No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle

(1) A driver (except the rider of a bicycle) must not overtake a vehicle to the left of the vehicle unless—

(a) the driver is driving on a multi-lane road and the vehicle can be safely overtaken in a marked lane to the left of the vehicle; or

(b) the vehicle is turning right, or making a U-turn from the centre of the road, and is giving a right change of direction signal; or

(c) the vehicle is stationary and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle.

Penalty: 5 penalty units.

[NTF6]

Must work in other countries, I saw a video the other day of some guys on road bikes flying in between cars on a freeway for about 10ks and not one car changed lanes. The cars would have been doing about 100 kph and the guys on the bikes well over 200kph, they obviously had the confidence in the fact the cars weren't going to change lanes to be flying between cars at that speed.