Falcon Turbo six, most power potential from factory in the world

Eaturbo · 19-12-2015, 01:52 PM

As the title says, is the Falcon six cyclinder turbo with say a manual gearbox the best Factory turbo 6 Cyclinder engine ever built. I mean the supra and GTR were fast but there factory turbos were terrible. As a stock engine with say just injectors and inter cooler and fuel pump was this engine the most potent engine made with regards to stock turbo and stock engine. I have heard of 400rwkw with a stock BF OR FG Engine on E85 with just waste gate ported. I can't think of another car world wide that with stock engine and turbo can make this much power without changing the turbo or rebuilding the engine. Could it be that the Aussie 6 with turbo is in fact the best turbo 6 to ever leave an automotive factory with regards to power output potential with only tune and some bolt ons. Any comparison you have must retain the factory turbo. Maybe we have become all to use to having the XR6 turbo and actually forget what we have.

Windsor220 · 19-12-2015, 02:23 PM

I would say yes. The RB26 and 2JZ can get to around 400rwhp I think with the standard turbos. The Ford goes well past that.

I don't know if there are any other 6s out there with big power. Maybe the Euros.

sexyxe · 19-12-2015, 02:31 PM

Bmw m4?

barnz_xr8 · 19-12-2015, 02:36 PM

2jz supra's had Manley h beam rods stock and forged pistons, so the power handling potential is there.

barnz_xr8 · 19-12-2015, 02:37 PM

but you are right, damn even bf xr6t's stock turbo and can make 330rwkw.

FPV GTHO · 19-12-2015, 02:46 PM

You can't say one car had a terrible turbo and turn around and upgrade the terrible parts on another

Stefan · 19-12-2015, 04:17 PM

911 turbo 450kw+, Nissan GTR 360kW, BMW M3 316kW. No good?

nstg8a · 19-12-2015, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

You can't say one car had a terrible turbo and turn around and upgrade the terrible parts on another

Exactly, if it's fine to do valve springs and fuel pump on a Barra then it's fine to chuck a decent turbo on another motor.

ravenhard · 19-12-2015, 02:44 PM

R35 GTR has 404kw stock from the factory at the fly. I imagine could go a whole lot more with tune and minor upgrades as well

Falcon SXR8 · 19-12-2015, 06:58 PM

The fact that the inline 6 can even be compared in this group of engines is praise enough and if you factor in cost its even better.

FPV GTHO · 19-12-2015, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

The fact that the inline 6 can even be compared in this group of engines is praise enough and if you factor in cost its even better.

Not really, the R35 GTR is the closest in capacity that has been compared, and is still smaller.

malazn mafia · 20-12-2015, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

The fact that the inline 6 can even be compared in this group of engines is praise enough and if you factor in cost its even better.

This. Holdens 'state of the art' AlloyTec range of motors and Toyota's 'game changing' 2GR motors are nowhere close to the reputed RB, VR38, 2JZ and Barra motors. Amazing what grandpa's axe when coupled with Aussie ingenuity can do. If only the Barra had been direct injected in its last incarnation... We can only dream

**DFB FGXR6** · 20-12-2015, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

This. Holdens 'state of the art' AlloyTec range of motors and Toyota's 'game changing' 2GR motors are nowhere close to the reputed RB, VR38, 2JZ and Barra motors. Amazing what grandpa's axe when coupled with Aussie ingenuity can do. If only the Barra had been direct injected in its last incarnation... We can only dream

GM spent squillions developing that engine and two new plants to build it. They apparently benchmarked competitor engines from Honda, Nissan and Toyota. And yet it couldn't, and still cant, match the effectiveness of the DOHC Ford Inline 6 (both turbo and N/A) that was developed on a show string.

Franco Cozzo · 20-12-2015, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

GM spent squillions developing that engine and two new plants to build it. They apparently benchmarked competitor engines from Honda, Nissan and Toyota. And yet it couldn't, and still cant, match the effectiveness of the DOHC Ford Inline 6 (both turbo and N/A) that was developed on a show string.

Its just a bloody massive pile of crap that Alloytec boat anchor, we've had no crap around 10 VZ-VE V6 Commodores in for engine light issues in the last week, and two of them for oil pressure sensors.

One of the VEs in my workshop at the moment has done timing chains at 57,000km.

The 6L V8s, no problems, you get the odd one in for an alternator or starter motor, and there are a bazillion of these in my region, but the V6 ones, my god keeping me in business.

They shouldn't have ditched the 3.8L V6, the Ecotec was a solid engine with good reliability.

You ask any mechanic about that 3.6L V6 Alloytec and no one has anything nice to say about it.

Eaturbo · 20-12-2015, 10:19 PM

Yeah have heard they are bad for timing chains which there is no real excuses for. They are only using a similar system and chain to many others so why they can't get 200,000kms out of a chain is beyond me. I know they also suffer from bad build up on the back of the inlet valves from the direct injection which does not spray fuel on the back of the valves and clean them like normal injection does

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its just a bloody massive pile of crap that Alloytec boat anchor, we've had no crap around 10 VZ-VE V6 Commodores in for engine light issues in the last week, and two of them for oil pressure sensors.

One of the VEs in my workshop at the moment has done timing chains at 57,000km.

The 6L V8s, no problems, you get the odd one in for an alternator or starter motor, and there are a bazillion of these in my region, but the V6 ones, my god keeping me in business.

They shouldn't have ditched the 3.8L V6, the Ecotec was a solid engine with good reliability.

You ask any mechanic about that 3.6L V6 Alloytec and no one has anything nice to say about it.

FPV GTHO · 20-12-2015, 10:25 PM

The 3.8 would've needed to grow to 4.5l+ to remain competitive in power/torque.

Evidently they now have a 4.3l V6 based on the GenV architecture dubbed LV3.

99AUXR · 19-12-2015, 07:09 PM

Hmm Im going to say cubic effiency the RB26DETT, 2JZGTE and especially the VR38DETT are all further ahead.

As for power handling of the stock internals Im going to call them all out as being better again.

**Mont5.0** · 19-12-2015, 07:17 PM

Maybe change the thread title to Australian built and you may have a contender, not the world.

FPV414 · 19-12-2015, 08:45 PM

There's a guy on here that's a run 10.99 with 390rwkw on E85 I think. Used stock cooler and exhaust, but had valve springs, dump, cat and E85 fuel system. I think BFB that is amazing. It's not going to hold together for too long but if you're sympathetic it's not exactly and unreliable set up too. I've know BF F6's to be had for as low as $11k, add less than $3k in mods and tuning for a $14k 10 second car - with all the creature comforts that a BF F6 came with.

Eaturbo · 19-12-2015, 09:00 PM

What I'm saying here is that while cars like the R35 GTR and BMW M4 might be fast stock, I don't think theres much in the way of getting big power out of them without changing the turbos. Again one could say that these types of cars are not even really a fair comparison but as I did say the best in the world it's still a fair call. There are guys I know making 450rwkw on a stock engine and turbo FG F6 on e85. I don't believe there is any stock turboed GTR's with stock turbos doing this or for that matter any other cars with Stock turbos making this much power. Valve springs are needed in any car making big power no matter what, check out Nismo or Any other hot euro tuner. So to say you can't change parts on one and not the other is not the point I'm trying to make. What other stock engine and stock turbo car can make 450rwkw and let's be honest the only close contenders are 3 to 6 times the price and even than it would be a very close call on if that was even possible. Maybe just maybe the best ever volume built engine of all time for power potential is built right here in Aus. Now would it be that bad if it was .

Stefan · 20-12-2015, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

What I'm saying here is that while cars like the R35 GTR and BMW M4 might be fast stock, I don't think theres much in the way of getting big power out of them without changing the turbos. Again one could say that these types of cars are not even really a fair comparison but as I did say the best in the world it's still a fair call. There are guys I know making 450rwkw on a stock engine and turbo FG F6 on e85. I don't believe there is any stock turboed GTR's with stock turbos doing this or for that matter any other cars with Stock turbos making this much power. Valve springs are needed in any car making big power no matter what, check out Nismo or Any other hot euro tuner. So to say you can't change parts on one and not the other is not the point I'm trying to make. What other stock engine and stock turbo car can make 450rwkw and let's be honest the only close contenders are 3 to 6 times the price and even than it would be a very close call on if that was even possible. Maybe just maybe the best ever volume built engine of all time for power potential is built right here in Aus. Now would it be that bad if it was .

I think most, well me anyway, were simply responding to your blanket statement in the OP.

But bang for your buck the I6T has no peers, I see great results from the S/C 5.0, but a 5.0 car is still a fair bit more expensive than what a XR6T or even F6 can be picked up for.

I'm hoping they don't increase in value, so I can keep plucking off cheap daily low km barra 6Ts for a few years to come.

shaness8 · 19-12-2015, 10:04 PM

Value for money can't beat the turbo barra, just imagine what the barra could have been with further development.

Eaturbo · 19-12-2015, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaness8

Value for money can't beat the turbo barra, just imagine what the barra could have been with further development.

Yeah imagine if they'd gone Ecoboost with it with direct injection and the Ecoboost software which is the secret to the Ecoboosts power.

arronm · 19-12-2015, 10:20 PM

Yep Iam a big fan of the turbo 6 cyclinder

matador · 19-12-2015, 11:36 PM

Top cars.. crazy fast with basic mods.

**CAT600** · 20-12-2015, 12:16 AM

Fastest stock turbo, stock engine R35 is 9.73 @ 142mph and it's still a fairly hefty car. Damn the 2014's run 10.90's from factory.

But yes the Barra is a great engine no doubt

mik · 20-12-2015, 08:58 AM

bang for buck it is hard to go past the big six, how much torque do these other expensive turbo sixes make ?
have a look at this bad boy , not far from breaking into the eights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG2TylsSZBE
nizpro motor 1163 hp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2eWHNSaSZU

another bad boy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RePyipH01-U

barnz_xr8 · 20-12-2015, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

bang for buck it is hard to go past the big six, how much torque do these other expensive turbo sixes make ?
have a look at this bad boy , not far from breaking into the eights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG2TylsSZBE
nizpro motor 1163 hp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2eWHNSaSZU

another bad boy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RePyipH01-U

man that purple xr6t could use a 2 speed glide to tame down the launch some.

Angeldust · 20-12-2015, 10:29 AM

wouldn't it be preferable if it was a shorter stroke motor? with the long stroke, it will always be a tractor motor..

:P

Stefan · 20-12-2015, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angeldust

wouldn't it be preferable if it was a shorter stroke motor? with the long stroke, it will always be a tractor motor..

:P

That's the beauty of the engine, torques everywhere. I don't see the point of short stroke high revving buzz box that is largely off boost and needs it's neck wrung before anything happens.