VW Doubles Sales Pays Less Tax..ATO Please Explain....

[csv8]

"As one of the world's largest automakers, we bear a special responsibility for the environment and for humankind, and we intend to put our creative powers to good use." Volkswagen Sustainability Report, 2014.

The German automaker admitted last week as many as 11 million diesel VW vehicles worldwide had deliberately been fitted with "defeat devices", software to allow its cars to cheat pollution tests.

A week has passed and it is yet to outline how many VWs and Audi diesel models may be affected in Australia. Has Volkswagen, as majestically heralded in its Sustainability Report, put its creative powers to such good use in the field of accounting and tax?

An assessment by Fairfax Media and University of NSW accounting academic Jeff Knapp found that over the past eight years the group's economic activity in Australia has doubled while its income tax contribution has fallen.
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"The ATO needs to start explaining how this company can double its sales and pay less tax," says Knapp. "In 2007 it sold 28,000 cars (passenger, commercial vehicles and Skoda) and paid $11.8 million in tax. Last year, it sold 57,000 and paid $9 million in tax."

Volkswagen has been one of the great success stories in the Australian car market. Audi and Porsche too, ultimately controlled by the same ultimate parent company as Volkswagen, have also sold very well, and been paltry tax payers too."
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/busi...24-gjuhmh.html

[Wretched]

Wow, this is news?
Unless we can see their books there could be a number of factors.
Are we going to look at every company and individual now too?

Not VWs fault, it is our rubbish tax system that is at fault.

[b0son]

Income taxes are a failure. Crank up the GST, scrap the rest.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by b0son

Income taxes are a failure. Crank up the GST, scrap the rest.

Everyone pays the GST, including the disadvantaged and those experiencing hardship. That's fine, 10% is a good level and seems to work well. But instead of raising it and penalising those who least deserve it, why not chase the large "VW type" corporations who are well known to profit shift in order to pay almost nothing - make them pay their fair share.

But no, let the big guys do what they wan't, pay less than they should - we'll make it up from the little every day people like you and I

[Adamz Ghia]

Not that simple. It requires international cooperation that doesn't exist yet.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Everyone pays the GST, including the disadvantaged and those experiencing hardship. That's fine, 10% is a good level and seems to work well. But instead of raising it and penalising those who least deserve it, why not chase the large "VW type" corporations who are well known to profit shift in order to pay almost nothing - make them pay their fair share.

But no, let the big guys do what they wan't, pay less than they should - we'll make it up from the little every day people like you and I

No.
Imposing income tax on corporations, certainly on manufacturers and retailers is an almost completely pointless exercise.
Who pays the tax? The CONSUMER does. Therefore if you want to spread that tax burden "fairly" the best way is via a sales-tax or GST.
The problem at the moment is that dishonest importers like VW can effectively export their profits elsewhere. GST avoids that.
The weird thing they did with GST, because they thought it would make it simple, is to make it all the same value, but there's no reason cars couldn't have kept their higher levels. (Luxury cars still do.)

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

No.
Imposing income tax on corporations, certainly on manufacturers and retailers is an almost completely pointless exercise.
Who pays the tax? The CONSUMER does. Therefore if you want to spread that tax burden "fairly" the best way is via a sales-tax or GST.
The problem at the moment is that dishonest importers like VW can effectively export their profits elsewhere. GST avoids that.
The weird thing they did with GST, because they thought it would make it simple, is to make it all the same value, but there's no reason cars couldn't have kept their higher levels. (Luxury cars still do.)

No.

Why is it an almost completely useless exercise? A company makes profit, they should pay tax on it. It's pretty damn simple.

The GST is fair as in people choose how much they spend and therefore how much tax they pay, so like I said I don't have a problem with that. But if we're talking about shortfalls in government revenue, you want to up the GST to hit the every day person harder, while shrugging your shoulders and throwing corporate tax (or complete lack of) in the too hard basket?

No.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Why is it an almost completely useless exercise? A company makes profit, they should pay tax on it. It's pretty damn simple.

And where does that profit come from? The price the consumer pays. It's already factored in!

I'm suggesting we move entirely to GST and scrap all other taxes, for all entities - corporations and people included.

The only people that might be worse off would be those individuals paying no or very little income tax. Easy fixed, they're already living off the taxpayer courtesy of FTB, centrelink, DSP, etc. Just increase those to account for the GST increase.

The fundamental problem here is that income tax is too easy to avoid. How about all those companies owned by churches? They pay zero income tax, and as such, can afford to undercut for-profit entities. Is that fair? A level playing field means equal tax treatment for all.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by b0son

Income taxes are a failure. Crank up the GST, scrap the rest.

You do realise that income tax is a federal tax only and that gst gets carved up and goes to the states and territories.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by ute83

You do realise that income tax is a federal tax only and that gst gets carved up and goes to the states and territories.

And its the federal government that decides how GST gets carved up. No reason any taxation review couldn't look at how this is done.

The entire point is that a simpler tax system is harder to dodge and easier to police.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by b0son

And its the federal government that decides how GST gets carved up. No reason any taxation review couldn't look at how this is done.

The entire point is that a simpler tax system is harder to dodge and easier to police.

It isn't harder to dodge. Get a quote from a tradesman and if you pay cash you pay a lot less. He then gives you a list of stuff to buy from Bunnings or where ever. Yes, you pay GST on the stuff you buy but GST isn't being paid on his labour and he isn't paying income tax. Yes, I can be honest and insist on paying on a credit card or by cheque but I will be one of a very small minority.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by IanC

It isn't harder to dodge. Get a quote from a tradesman and if you pay cash you pay a lot less. He then gives you a list of stuff to buy from Bunnings or where ever. Yes, you pay GST on the stuff you buy but GST isn't being paid on his labour and he isn't paying income tax. Yes, I can be honest and insist on paying on a credit card or by cheque but I will be one of a very small minority.

But that money will be spent eventually. Assuming he collected $100 and didn't pay say 20% GST he will have an extra $20 to spend later on and eventually it will be spent. You can dodge GST all you like but unless you're not going to spend a dime ever you will pay it eventually.

[Trump]

If government was small enough and spent within its means and mandate, it wouldn't need to be chasing so much for revenue.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

If government was small enough and spent within its means and mandate, it wouldn't need to be chasing so much for revenue.

http://theopenbudget.org/#0

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-1...onomic-affairs

[bazza91]

Originally Posted by Wretched

http://theopenbudget.org/#0

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-1...onomic-affairs

According to that abc site, the government expects to raise $397.98 billion in revenue, but its expecting to spend $434.47 billion.

Im no expert by any means but you just dont spend more money than you expect to earn, the only place that lands you is in debt and if they continue that as a trend then they are only ever going to get further and further in debt.
It seems to me that they might need somebody else to do their budget, perhaps somebody who can add numbers.

[xtremerus]

Total sales means nothing. It's profit that you pay tax on.

[new2ford]

Their balance of cars above the LCT threshold might have fallen too. Would be several possible factors.

[Franco Cozzo]

The Fax Free Tour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4o13isDdfY

Good documentary that explains multinational tax avoidance.

[Road Games]

Originally Posted by csv8

"As one of the world's largest automakers, we bear a special responsibility for the environment and for humankind, and we intend to put our creative powers to good use." Volkswagen Sustainability Report, 2014.

The German automaker admitted last week as many as 11 million diesel VW vehicles worldwide had deliberately been fitted with "defeat devices", software to allow its cars to cheat pollution tests.

A week has passed and it is yet to outline how many VWs and Audi diesel models may be affected in Australia. Has Volkswagen, as majestically heralded in its Sustainability Report, put its creative powers to such good use in the field of accounting and tax?

An assessment by Fairfax Media and University of NSW accounting academic Jeff Knapp found that over the past eight years the group's economic activity in Australia has doubled while its income tax contribution has fallen.
Advertisement

"The ATO needs to start explaining how this company can double its sales and pay less tax," says Knapp. "In 2007 it sold 28,000 cars (passenger, commercial vehicles and Skoda) and paid $11.8 million in tax. Last year, it sold 57,000 and paid $9 million in tax."

Volkswagen has been one of the great success stories in the Australian car market. Audi and Porsche too, ultimately controlled by the same ultimate parent company as Volkswagen, have also sold very well, and been paltry tax payers too."
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/busi...24-gjuhmh.html

Got me stuffed how you sleep at night ?

You must be nocturnal, waiting for the email to your subscription to the news just so you can post the latest whatever on AFF

Just an observation..

Please Continue...

[vztrt]

I guess its good that they paid tax.....there are much worse comapnies out there avoiding it.

But isn't mr govco investigating some of the biggest cheats at the moment?

[XRtowcar]

Another reason to not make cars here.
Easier to shift the profits to somewhere else without having to pay the correct taxation in the country you sell the product.

[ute83]

You have missed the entire point. The Feds need the income tax to pay for everything. They are not going to forgo this tax so that the gst can be increased only to go to the states and territories.

[Adamz Ghia]

GST is a far more efficient revenue source than income tax as its inescapable. Everyone pays it, and if it's levied on everything it's collected on everything we buy and / or pay for. You could probably raise the GST and apply it to everything and cut income tax and the government would be in a better fiscal position.

[Mowdit]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

GST is a far more efficient revenue source than income tax as its inescapable. Everyone pays it, and if it's levied on everything it's collected on everything we buy and / or pay for. You could probably raise the GST and apply it to everything and cut income tax and the government would be in a better fiscal position.

So if I am down at the local aluminum place, and the lady being served before me says "its to be billed to my husbands business, but for our home".....
Isnt dodging !
Or selling the "company car" at a MASSIVE LOSS to our son "is OK" !!!!!!
Claiming "that 14day trip" to the USA for a 6hour conference. .............

There is always a WAY

GOVCO just need to get smarter
(And stop sucking up ******* to trade with othe countries, they WANT to trade with us, so why do we have to suck up and get the short end of the stick? Ask OUR ELECTED !!!! )

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Mowdit

There is always a WAY

Good point... input credits can be misused.

An alternative tax system is a transaction tax, and this could be done at the bank level. Any time there is a movement of money, a percentage goes to the government. Combine with paperless money, and its impossible to dodge.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by Mowdit

So if I am down at the local aluminum place, and the lady being served before me says "its to be billed to my husbands business, but for our home".....
Isnt dodging !
Or selling the "company car" at a MASSIVE LOSS to our son "is OK" !!!!!!
Claiming "that 14day trip" to the USA for a 6hour conference. .............

There is always a WAY

GOVCO just need to get smarter
(And stop sucking up ******* to trade with othe countries, they WANT to trade with us, so why do we have to suck up and get the short end of the stick? Ask OUR ELECTED !!!! )

That's assuming there wouldn't be any further changes if GST became the main revenue source. Of course there's always a way, I never said there wasn't. But it doesn't change that GST is more broad based than income tax and a more efficient source. For example, people who work on the farms cash in hand. The government gets no income tax from that money. But if GST was raised to 20% and applied to everything more often than not the govt will get a slice as that money will be spent eventually.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by ute83

You have missed the entire point.

No, you have. I already said, a taxation review could look at who gets how much of the GST. There's no reason the federal government couldn't get a slice of the GST. They don't have to persist with the current model if all the states agree.

[Deo]

Originally Posted by b0son

Any time there is a movement of money, a percentage goes to the government.

So I'll take my salary in beer and flat-screen TVs thanks :p


Sent from my GTi-9305 using bloody Tapatalk

[XRtowcar]

Probably reinstate import duties would be a good way to stop some of the offshoring tax losses.

[turbodewd]

I agree with Boson.

You gotta lift the GST because its extremely difficult to avoid. At the same time cut income taxes. let me summarise:

Income tax - paid by honest workers
GST - paid by everyone

When rich chap buys Maserati or flies to Cairns he cant avoid the GST...but he can sure avoid income tax if his cash is parked overseas.