Stop Start Technology

[Peterwl]

I am looking to update my two cars for different uses. One for the local short range commutes, and a Sunday / Big trip drive.

I was all set to get a new Mazda 3 auto until I realised it had Stop Start technology that you cannot permanently disable, only disable per trip.

I assume no manual transmission vehicles have it, only autos.

I definitely do not want any new car with this madness in it.

It appears all the current new Euros and Japanese cars have it !

Maybe this is a reason to buy a current Falcon or Commodore as they do not have it !

Any one know of a list of current cars that do NOT have it ?

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Peterwl

I am looking to update my two cars for different uses. One for the local short range commutes, and a Sunday / Big trip drive.

I was all set to get a new Mazda 3 auto until I realised it had Stop Start technology that you cannot permanently disable, only disable per trip.

I assume no manual transmission vehicles have it, only autos.

I definitely do not want any new car with this madness in it.

It appears all the current new Euros and Japanese cars have it !

Maybe this is a reason to buy a current Falcon or Commodore as they do not have it !

Any one know of a list of current cars that do NOT have it ?

That's a BIG list. Far more cars without stop start then with I'd say. Anything Ford and Ecoboost engined, you can't go wrong. Google is your friend too

[new2ford]

These systems are also available on manual cars:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Start-stop_system

[ratter]

Madness?

[4vxc]

its no big deal to turn off just push a button
also the Mazda system ( auto or manual ) wont activate if you don't press the brake pedal too hard while the car is idling
If your in the market for a car like a Mazda 3 its doubtful you would consider a Falcon or Commodore

[richo77]

uploadfromtaptalk1429314011463.jpeg

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by richo77

Attachment 87423

Snap into it!!!

[Sioso]

My wife's CX5 has it, just a push button you need to hit after starting.
No different to turning traction control off on any of my cars in the past so it doesn't bother me.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Peterwl

I am looking to update my two cars for different uses. One for the local short range commutes, and a Sunday / Big trip drive.

I was all set to get a new Mazda 3 auto until I realised it had Stop Start technology that you cannot permanently disable, only disable per trip.

I assume no manual transmission vehicles have it, only autos.

I definitely do not want any new car with this madness in it.

It appears all the current new Euros and Japanese cars have it !

Maybe this is a reason to buy a current Falcon or Commodore as they do not have it !

Any one know of a list of current cars that do NOT have it ?

I think on the same wave length Peterwl, i like the idea of keeping it simple engineering .
if i need a rocket scientist to do a clutch ............. or to see a bank manager every time a major service comes up....... i do not want it.

[2011G6E]

Sometimes I honestly think it's technology for technologies sake...just to look trendy.

When we got the new model Prados at work a few years back, we all noticed one interesting thing. The "old" Prado had a traditional physical lever on the floor to move from high range to low range 4x4. It was a mechanical connection to the box, wobbling slightly as the car idled. Our Triton has the same thing by the way.
Then the "new" Prado came out, and it had a knob to turn to do the same job...and we all immediately started considering what was involved.
On one vehicle you had a simple lever. On the newer one there was a dial...with a complex multi-function switch unit behind it...with circuitry behind that...with meters of wiring...with a computer somewhere controlling it...with servo motors on the gearbox...with mechanisms to select low or high range from that servo...

So many more levels of things that can possibly go wrong, and all for no real good reason...there wasn't any more interior space, there was just one less gear lever.


Stop start is a toss...nothing more. You would have to be doing a lot of stop start driving to see even the tiniest benefit...you'd probably get a better economy increase by just making sure your tyres are inflated correctly and your car is serviced properly...

[ratter]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

You would have to be doing a lot of stop start driving to see even the tiniest benefit...you'd probably get a better economy increase by just making sure your tyres are inflated correctly and your car is serviced properly...

something which many people do not do

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Sometimes I honestly think it's technology for technologies sake...just to look trendy.

When we got the new model Prados at work a few years back, we all noticed one interesting thing. The "old" Prado had a traditional physical lever on the floor to move from high range to low range 4x4. It was a mechanical connection to the box, wobbling slightly as the car idled. Our Triton has the same thing by the way.
Then the "new" Prado came out, and it had a knob to turn to do the same job...and we all immediately started considering what was involved.
One one vehicle you had a simple lever. On the newer one there was a dial...with a complex multi-function switch unit behind it...with circuitry behind that...with meters of wiring...with a computer somewhere controlling it...with servo motors on the gearbox...with mechanisms to select low or high range from that servo...

So many more levels of things that can possibly go wrong, and all for no real good reason...there wasn't any more interior space, there was just one less gear lever.


Stop start is a toss...nothing more. You would have to be doing a lot of stop start driving to see even the tiniest benefit...you'd probably get a better economy increase by just making sure your tyres are inflated correctly and your car is serviced properly...

Funny you mention that about the Prado because just the other day I was speaking to a guy with a current model and he mentioned his is in for warranty due to the actuator for the dual range fuction being buggered.

I was a bit surprised when he first started telling me the story as every Prado I had driven had the mechanic shifter arrangement.



BTW the only purpose of the stop start fuction is to easily drop a few .1/100km on the official urban economy rating. Part of the test is 10minutes (not sure the exact amount of time, might be more) of idling to simulate being stationary at traffic lights.
So if a car is stopped during that test then it obviously it shaves a significant amount off the economy rating with little effort from the manufacturer.

In reality it achieves very little real World economy benefit; stuff like driving style, route choice, tyre pressure, junk in the boot, roof racks etc are a much greater influence on economy.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Sometimes I honestly think it's technology for technologies sake...just to look trendy.

When we got the new model Prados at work a few years back, we all noticed one interesting thing. The "old" Prado had a traditional physical lever on the floor to move from high range to low range 4x4. It was a mechanical connection to the box, wobbling slightly as the car idled. Our Triton has the same thing by the way.
Then the "new" Prado came out, and it had a knob to turn to do the same job...and we all immediately started considering what was involved.
On one vehicle you had a simple lever. On the newer one there was a dial...with a complex multi-function switch unit behind it...with circuitry behind that...with meters of wiring...with a computer somewhere controlling it...with servo motors on the gearbox...with mechanisms to select low or high range from that servo...

So many more levels of things that can possibly go wrong, and all for no real good reason...there wasn't any more interior space, there was just one less gear lever.


Stop start is a toss...nothing more. You would have to be doing a lot of stop start driving to see even the tiniest benefit...you'd probably get a better economy increase by just making sure your tyres are inflated correctly and your car is serviced properly...

Agreed, whats one more lever when it replaces circuitry? Things can go wrong!



But seriously I'm not a fan of stop start tech either. There has to be a negative effect on the battery and starter motor.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Agreed, whats one more lever when it replaces circuitry? Things can go wrong!

image

But seriously I'm not a fan of stop start tech either. There has to be a negative effect on the battery and starter motor.

I believe the more modern ones don't use either the starter motor or battery. a metered amount of fuel injected into the right hot cylinder and corresponding spark will do it.
Modern engine management at its finest.

JP

[Brazen]

Love the stop start systems, why have engines chugging away at lights for no reason.

Sure it only saves around 3- 4% of fuel a year, but added up to all cars it makes a massive difference to the amount of oil we need to import and the air quality in our cities.

Also no engine running while stopped means no noise and vibration is the kind of refinement of a Rolls Royce.

I believe most don't use the starter motor, they stop the crank in the right position so that all it need is a squirt of fuel and a spark to get going again.

[fourl6]

Originally Posted by Peterwl

I assume no manual transmission vehicles have it, only autos.

I was surprised when looking at Ford Kuga's last year, the base model manual has it but not the autos

Redbook - 2014 TF Kuga Ambiente FWD Manual

Engine - Stop Start System (When at idle)

[BradEL]

Stop start technology has to be one of the stupidest features on cars these days. Just pointless...

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by BradEL

Stop start technology has to be one of the stupidest features on cars these days. Just pointless...

That and rain sensing wipers.. I'm sorry, but if you can't tell it is effing raining, then please get the hell off the road!!!!

[Mr Brooksy]

Was riding in a Mercedes C Class last week with it installed. When it engaged, you could not tell it was off (exhaust note was almost dead silent when driving), but when the lights went green and my friend went to take off, the car acted stupid for about half a second, kinda like an L plater doing a mini bunny hop in grandma's old manual Excel!

Seriously if the Germans cant make this thing seemless then... who can?

I've been wondering since, how much undue stress is put through the driveline just to save a Litre or 2 each tank (city driving)? Not something that I want to have to deal with when warrenty ends!

[4vxc]

[QUOTE=Mr Brooksy;5375656]Was riding in a Mercedes C Class last week with it installed. When it engaged, you could not tell it was off (exhaust note was almost dead silent when driving), but when the lights went green and my friend went to take off, the car acted stupid for about half a second, kinda like an L plater doing a mini bunny hop in grandma's old manual Excel!

Seriously if the Germans cant make this thing seemless then... who can?

the Japanese

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Mr Brooksy

Seriously if the Germans cant make this thing seemless then... who can?

I've driven several BMWs with it and you don't even notice it, except that the car is completely silent at stops. It starts again in a fraction of a second, completely seamless. There are Germans and there are Germans. Maybe the Merc was a Freitag build

That said, I'm not a fan of it, living in the country. I can understand its benefit in city peak traffic.

[nadojay]

My wife has one of the new mazda 3s and its a great car but the start/stop is annoying because it switches off the aircon which in fnq sucks

[richo77]

Originally Posted by nadojay

My wife has one of the new mazda 3s and its a great car but the start/stop is annoying because it switches off the aircon which in fnq sucks

It wont switch off the car if its hot enough in mazda 3

[tex]

Originally Posted by Mr Brooksy

Was riding in a Mercedes C Class last week.....

Seriously if the Germans cant make this thing seemless then... who can?

they can.

it is seemless in our Audi, you have to be paying close attention to even notice it restart and go. but then again, the engine makes 650nm from 1200 rpm so its not like it is gutless from idle. its so seemless that i reckon it would make under a second difference to 100 from standstill. Quite remarkable really.

I hate it though, and after 3 months, still forget to turn it off before the first intersection. Thats annoying.

[You Yangs]

Stupid idea in Australia, when stopped whats going to drive the AC compressor? Our climate is mostly warm than cool like Europe. On a 40 degree day you would quickly sweat your *** off

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by You Yangs

Stupid idea in Australia, when stopped whats going to drive the AC compressor? Our climate is mostly warm than cool like Europe. On a 40 degree day you would quickly sweat your *** off

The aircon keeps going, just slightly reduced.

And it gets very hot in Europe too!

[bangm001]

OK guys, just bought the missus a brand new mazda 6 about a month ago. YOU CAN drive it without it ever turning off. If you lightly brake when holding the car at the lights it DOES NOT switch off. You have to apply more pressure on the brake pedal for it to activate the I stop.

[Blem]

The Mazda 3 has an awful lot of road noise.
We drove the Mistubishi Lancer GSR hatchback.
Creamed the Mazda.
2.4lt engine more kw & nm.
18inch alloys.
5 yr warranty.
The list goes on.
The only thing Mazda has over the Mitsubishi is it looks better.

Has anyone else seen the advert Adam Gilchrist.
That adverts states on average he will stop / start 18000 times in a year.
That's a lot of wear & tear on a starter motor.
Want to be a REALLY GOOD warranty on it...

[4vxc]

the starter motor isn't used to restart the engine
there is info here somewhere about how the Mazda system works

[nitro50th]

We have a current model Mazda3 SP25 with a manual gear box and the stop/start never really comes into play.

For it to activate on manual 3's you need to have the car in neutral and your foot off the clutch pedal. So you can decide at the lights or in heavy traffic if you want it to activate by just chucking it into neutral and taking your foot off the clutch pedal. As soon as you put pressure on the clutch pedal the engine starts up again.

In my normal driving it just doesn't happen, which was a big plus for as we drove an auto version and it quickly got annoying.