2016 where does that leave HSV

[music189]

How would you like to be running HSV at the moment, just been announced that the car your business is built around wont exist from 2016. it is now going to be a front wheel drive four cylinder.

wtf do we(HSV) do now? probably import Camaros and Corvettes

[flappist]

Originally Posted by music189

How would you like to be running HSV at the moment, just been announced that the car your business is built around wont exist from 2016. it is now going to be a front wheel drive four cylinder.

wtf do we(HSV) do now? probably import Camaros and Corvettes

Yep FWD 4 cylinders are sooo slow.

Now wander off and show us all how you can blow away a Focus RS or Megane 265 in your Territory......

[Elks]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yep FWD 4 cylinders are sooo slow.

Now wander off and show us all how you can blow away a Focus RS or Megane 265 in your Territory......

Its not that they are slow in fact the opposite. That class of car has some serious contenders, and most are very good cars, including the ones above and they are fully imported high volume models. HSV's issue is how do they compete. It's ok to add 10~15k to something like a RWD v8 when the next best thing is $150k euro. But to go head to head with an RS Passat or similar euro without the V8 /RWD point of difference, mmmmm I see HSV having a real business issue.

[T4ME]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yep FWD 4 cylinders are sooo slow.

Now wander off and show us all how you can blow away a Focus RS or Megane 265 in your Territory......

What terrain are we talking here for the race?

Should bring some nice added room to the rear compartment being FWD.

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yep FWD 4 cylinders are sooo slow.

Now wander off and show us all how you can blow away a Focus RS or Megane 265 in your Territory......

Poor comment... Those cars are small, tight, stiff and agile hatch backs... Not a large, loose and wallowing commodore...fwd under the commo or falc platform would be a disaster !

Now wander off and show us how your fwd hatch tows your boat, seats 5 (in comfort), fits plenty inside AND still manages to outpace plenty in a straight line...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

Poor comment... Those cars are small, tight, stiff and agile hatch backs... Not a large, loose and wallowing commodore...fwd under the commo or falc platform would be a disaster !

Now wander off and show us how your fwd hatch tows your boat, seats 5 (in comfort), fits plenty inside AND still manages to outpace plenty in a straight line...

Well back when I used to race MX (1979-1984) I often drove my 1982 Laser with 5 people on board towing a bike trailer with 3 bikes, 2 tool boxes and a whole pile of spares sometimes up to 500km each way at speeds of up to 130km/h. 1982 Laser was 1.5 litre carburetted 54kw 5 speed manual hatch.

That is, I ACTUALLY towed a heavy trailer and ACTUALLY had 5 adults in the car.

So what sort of boat do you have and where did you go with it while carrying 5 adults in your XR6?

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well back when I used to race MX (1979-1984) I often drove my 1982 Laser with 5 people on board towing a bike trailer with 3 bikes, 2 tool boxes and a whole pile of spares sometimes up to 500km each way at speeds of up to 130km/h. 1982 Laser was 1.5 litre carburetted 54kw 5 speed manual hatch.

That is, I ACTUALLY towed a heavy trailer and ACTUALLY had 5 adults in the car.

So what sort of boat do you have and where did you go with it while carrying 5 adults in your XR6?

What I do with my XR6 is irrelevant.. I have my own set of criteria as to why I purchased my current ride...

The OP implied that HSV in its current state would be made redundant by a FWD platform... You decided that it would be clever to point to hi po versions of megane, focus, etc - cars which share no similarity to a large fwd platform - and suggest that they are better cars than a territory... WAY off track, unnecessary and irrelevant...

And I'm confident that your old laser would have been reliable being submitted to that alleged type of work... Oh, and I absolutely feel for the people that had to endure that ridiculously inappropriate set up...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

What I do with my XR6 is irrelevant.. I have my own set of criteria as to why I purchased my current ride...

The OP implied that HSV in its current state would be made redundant by a FWD platform... You decided that it would be clever to point to hi po versions of megane, focus, etc - cars which share no similarity to a large fwd platform - and suggest that they are better cars than a territory... WAY off track, unnecessary and irrelevant...

And I'm confident that your old laser would have been reliable being submitted to that alleged type of work... Oh, and I absolutely feel for the people that had to endure that ridiculously inappropriate set up...

Well it was in fact very reliable as I owned it for 4 years from new and did over 150,000km in it.

Why you buy your car is your business but stating "can't pull a trailer with 5 pax" as an important reason then not actually wanting to pull a trailer with 5 pax says a lot about you.......

But you are right, it is wandering a bit. Lets all get back to the "only fast car in the world is a RWD large car with a V8 and anything else is slow so no performance company could ever sell a car that is not a RWD large car with a V8"

[Madaya]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

Poor comment... Those cars are small, tight, stiff and agile hatch backs... Not a large, loose and wallowing commodore...fwd under the commo or falc platform would be a disaster !

Now wander off and show us how your fwd hatch tows your boat, seats 5 (in comfort), fits plenty inside AND still manages to outpace plenty in a straight line...

Don't have a boat, most boats I see are towed by SUV, or 4WD. Most cars I see have only one, at best 2 people in them. All cars have a steering wheel, what's this straight line stuff?

As much as we love them, the present day Falcon and dare I say it, Commodore are freaks. Sure, they are a car that can do all of the above pretty well (for the price), but people are very critical these days. Have boat, get 4WD. Carry just you and your mate 99% of the time, get a small car (which may still have some poke).

Ford (and Holden) have been let down by the old timers. We were caught looking at our belly buttons and glorys past.

In closing, may I say. The FG Falcon, in all its variants, is possibly one of the best cars built in Australia. It was built for me and you, but not the World.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by music189

How would you like to be running HSV at the moment, just been announced that the car your business is built around wont exist from 2016. it is now going to be a front wheel drive four cylinder.

wtf do we(HSV) do now? probably import Camaros and Corvettes

Holden has announced that Commodore will be continuing after 2016, the name is implicitly RWD...

[GTP-814]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Holden has announced that Commodore will be continuing after 2016, the name is implicitly RWD...

I think the wording in the telegraph was that the name commodore would continue in 2016

[ray38l]

has it actually been announced by Holden yet? or is it the work of that moron journalist again?
either way I'm sure hsv won't be finding out about there fate by a media announcement.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by ray38l

has it actually been announced by Holden yet? or is it the work of that moron journalist again?
either way I'm sure hsv won't be finding out about there fate by a media announcement.

The Holden Brass said VJ Commodore, not Commodore replacement.
There are two options, evolution of Zeta Like Ford is planning with Falcon
or adoption of large Alpha as depicted by soon to be released Cadillac CTS.
Now that it's developed Holden/Chevrolet have access to it for variations.

[stang65]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The Holden Brass said VJ Commodore, not Commodore replacement.

I normally wouldn't question you jpd80 as you have been a wealth of knowledge , but Holden have made statements in the past and reneged (twin turbo v6 to take on the xr6 turbo). Just food for thought.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by stang65

I normally wouldn't question you jpd80 as you have been a wealth of knowledge , but Holden have made statements in the past and reneged (twin turbo v6 to take on the xr6 turbo). Just food for thought.

2017 is a long time, i find it quite strange that Holden is mentioning 2017 VJ this far out
You just don't do that before VF arrives....

I don't think Holden ever officially mentioned TT V6 in Commodore although I know that GMNA is still working on it,
perhaps new engines are part of a mid cycle upgrade in around two years time (mid 2015?)

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

2017 is a long time, i find it quite strange that Holden is mentioning 2017 VJ this far out
You just don't do that before VF arrives....

You do if the media want stop talking & writing about, to a point that is starts doing damage to your brand!!


Back on topic.. I dont see the problem?? HSV will hot up whatever the next Commodore is.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by jpd80

2017 is a long time, i find it quite strange that Holden is mentioning 2017 VJ this far out
You just don't do that before VF arrives....

Yes you do because Holden took an absolute bath over the last month over the future of the Commodore right on the eve of the release of the VF and because wild speculation was so rife and out of control to the point that it had started to become mainstream news whether it was true or not.

After seeing what Mitsubishi went through with the demise of the Magna and 380 because the media would not leave them alone until they were extinct, perhaps Holden decided to bring out the biggest fire truck they could find and hose down all this conjecture and speculation in one dose to protect Commodores future, and especially if they are planning a 2017 model. And whether they do a 2017 Commodore or they don't dose not matter for the time being because they have bought enough time to re-establish the Commodore name plate perhaps in a more global position by then and perhaps they may be hoping to secure its future in that way. All the hi-tech stuff suggest this and if it does fly we will see a new Commodore, but if it sinks then it will be gone so it is all up to the buying public (and possibly like no other time before, the export market) for now if we see the next model in 2017 or not.

But it is not 2017 yet so it is a moot point atm, however they have strongly reacted to the negative growing image surrounding the future of the Commodore before it got so far out of hand that they could not be reel it back.

This is nothing more than what most Ford people even on this forum have been asking for a while now as well.

Bud Bud

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by jpd80

...evolution of Zeta Like Ford is planning with Falcon....

Have you got any facts to back this up or are we just working on hearsay and rumours?

[ray38l]

I just like how everyone is taking it as Gospel that the 2016 commodore is going to be fwd. why? because some absolute moron claims his sources told him so?

[Ford_The_Win]

It's like 2009 all over again and all the Taurus FWD garbage that was floating around about the Falcon. The VF hasn't even come out yet! How many more years will we have to listen to these stupid rumours and speculation? Who cares if the 2017 Commodore is FWD. Nobody gives a crap if it's FWD or RWD. HSV is a niche within a niche that make up such a tiny portion of the car market.

[FGX-351]

I believe Holden made a very smart business decision holding off on announcing the continuation of the Commodore.

Instead of jumping the gun they waited until they had the most eyes on them(being the release of the VF) then struck.

Working smart, not hard.

[FGX-351]

Yeah as above(in regard to HSV), they're a business and at the end of the day if there is an opportunity to make money they'll do it as any good business would.

[Brazen]

I think Commodore will stay RWD, otherwise it will have no point of difference in the GM world. Plus the V8 versions bring in a lot of money. But who knows...

I think it will be a continuation of Zeta. Heck they haven't even changed the doors yet since the VE came out - there is still life in the series yet.

[gtxb67]

if they take their medication, they can control their hsv, but not get rid of it completely


maybe this subject is the reason ****inshaw performance is now doing fords and others

[Franco Cozzo]

We've got a 2003 Mazda 323 which pulled this fine:



It did 5 trailer loads, and up a few steep hills. That 6x4 has new 13" light truck tyres running 60 PSI, and the car was running 42 PSI rear and 38 front.

It would sit on 100km/h as well, fancy that.

Not bad for a 10 year old FWD car, 1.8L 4 cylinder with 340,000km on the clock.

It also carried me, Mum, Dad and my sister all over the place for a good portion of those 10 years.

Just because its front wheel drive doesn't mean its going to understeer 45 times into a tree because it has a feather in the trailer and its front wheels are off the ground.

Workmate has a FWD Ford Escape with a 3L V6, and he said it tows better than his old EL Fairmont Ghia (Which is now my EL Fairmont Ghia), which he ironically uses for a small boat.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

We've got a 2003 Mazda 323 which pulled this fine:

image

It did 5 trailer loads, and up a few steep hills. That 6x4 has new 13" light truck tyres running 60 PSI, and the car was running 42 PSI rear and 38 front.

It would sit on 100km/h as well, fancy that.

Not bad for a 10 year old FWD car, 1.8L 4 cylinder with 340,000km on the clock.

It also carried me, Mum, Dad and my sister all over the place for a good portion of those 10 years.

Just because its front wheel drive doesn't mean its going to understeer 45 times into a tree because it has a feather in the trailer and its front wheels are off the ground.

Workmate has a FWD Ford Escape with a 3L V6, and he said it tows better than his old EL Fairmont Ghia (Which is now my EL Fairmont Ghia), which he ironically uses for a small boat.

I would'nt like to stop in a hurry and there's an old saying, because you can does'nt mean you should.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by mik

I would'nt like to stop in a hurry and there's an old saying, because you can does'nt mean you should.

It stopped alright but you take that into consideration when you're driving with something heavy behind you.

Hell, the first time I drove my EL Falcon that was an experience in itself, that thing doesn't stop well at all with just me in it, had to keep in mind it doesn't stop anywhere near as well as the Focus and Fiesta and adjust driving style accordingly.

[Bossxr8]

To be perfectly honest though that's a pretty small trailer with some rocks in it, not a huge heavy caravan or anything.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

To be perfectly honest though that's a pretty small trailer with some rocks in it, not a huge heavy caravan or anything.

Obviously no one is going to try tow a 25 foot caravan with a Mazda 323.

Either will they with a Falcon, if you take a look at all the tow rigs behind most of the caravans you'll see they are mostly 4x4s or AWD SUVs.

[BOS540]

2015 HSV's might hold their value well!!