Ban P Platers over Easter

[AWD Chaser]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226043814025

WORRIED drivers have turned on young road users, overwhelmingly backing a ban on P-platers getting behind the wheel during the dangerous holiday seasons.
A nationwide survey has found that 58 per cent of Australians would support laws banning P-plate drivers from the road on public holidays.
And drivers, polled by the Rail, Tram and Bus Union, also believe in zero-tolerance when it comes to boozing, saying alcohol should be out of bounds for all road users during holiday season.
With Australians worried about the safety of our roads, 79 per cent of respondents said they would use a dedicated high-speed rail network between Australia's capital cities during holiday periods if one were available.
Rail Tram and Bus Union national secretary Bob Nanva said the P-plate ban result was quite unexpected.

He said the union did not advocate a ban on P-platers, but said the results indicated that Australian road users wanted more transport options for holiday travel to reduce the road toll.

"While these results are surprising, they clearly indicate that the majority of Australians are still concerned about the safety of our roads and want governments to do more to reduce the toll," he said.

NSW Roads Minister Duncan Gay said he would not support a move to outlaw P-platers from driving during public holidays.

"Many of the P-platers might be going on holidays ... (or people) who travel to work," a spokesman for Mr Gay said.

But the spokesman said studies suggested that younger drivers were more prone than older drivers to have accidents on public holidays.

A NSW Police spokeswoman said the road toll in NSW so far this year was 98 fatal crashes, which had resulted in 108 deaths.

In 2010 the annual road toll in NSW was 382 crashes resulting in 422 deaths.

NRMA spokesman Peter Khoury said they would not back a ban on P-platers.

"There is no evidence that taking P-platers off the road would make the roads safer," he said

Now using data from http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety...ident-data.pdf:

Year to Date (Mar 2011)
0-4: 0
5-16: 2
17-20: 10
21-25: 10
26-29: 8
30-39: 7
40-49: 15
50-59: 14
60-69: 8
70+: 17
uknown: 0
Total: 91

So given the stats for NSW - THe fatal stats dont agree with the minority bashing (although non-fatal stats may be different)

[sxckevo]

PATHETIC!! all i can say

[Jack91]

Yeah great idea. Brilliant even.
What a crock of ******

[xisled]

That is taking it to far. What a load of ****

[ZDI-970]

they are complete ********* dumbasses lol.. one of the stupidest ideas ive ever heard

[fmc351]

You may want to read it, its not advocating a ban, its merely saying a majority (and thats only a majority of those surveyed), when asked the question about P platers, thought it may be a good idea. The govcos relevant minister actually stated he would NOT support such a ban.

We dont even know how the question was asked, so cant even say if that majority of a sample, is a real representation or a simplification of the actual question.

Given the reference to the rail and transport sector and High Speed rail, Im guessing its a survey to gauge support for for High Speed rail. Bullet trains (or the Euro equivalent) for the win.

[Matthew]

Its this mentality that really frustrates me, saying all p platers cant drive is pathetic, for one not everyone is the same, some people got it some people dont no different to say soccer players some people can play some cant. I dont know why people think differently when it comes to driving. As soon as you stick the letter P on your car your hopeless but the day you take it off your fine? 58% of australia is seriously dumb

[xisled]

Originally Posted by Matthew

Its this mentality that really frustrates me, saying all p platers cant drive is pathetic, for one not everyone is the same, some people got it some people dont no different to say soccer players some people can play some cant. I dont know why people think differently when it comes to driving. As soon as you stick the letter P on your car your hopeless but the day you take it off your fine? 58% of australia is seriously dumb

I disagree with you, a P plater is still a learner driver and is not a good driver until they have a few years experience. Just because a P plater may be a safe driver does not mean they are a good driver. Only over time a person can become a good driver.

[JG33RD]

Originally Posted by xisled

I disagree with you, a P plater is still a learner driver and is not a good driver until they have a few years experience. Just because a P plater may be a safe driver does not mean they are a good driver. Only over time a person can become a good driver.

So who dertimes who is a good driver and who isn't?

[fat4D]

Originally Posted by JG33RD

So who dertimes who is a good driver and who isn't?

im with you on this, hell every time i drive somewhere in Canberra i see middle age idiots who shouldn't be on the road at all let alone just have a P plate

[Matthew]

Originally Posted by xisled

I disagree with you, a P plater is still a learner driver and is not a good driver until they have a few years experience. Just because a P plater may be a safe driver does not mean they are a good driver. Only over time a person can become a good driver.

Oh really? so everyone starts off the at the same skill level and rises at the same rate? No i dont think so, there are kids out there who take a keen interest in cars and know well in advance how they work and take to driving like a fish to water from day 1. Then you get the nervous uncoordinated kid who is a slow learner and cant drive to save his life. Proof of this? look to formula 1 most drivers that get looked at are in there late teens, same age as a p plater... Mark Skaife actually started racing cars before he was licensed so an L plater showing people the way...ok thats racing but still involves knowing how to drive a car.
Everyone is different there are people of all ages that are shocking drivers and fantastic drivers.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by Matthew

Oh really? so everyone starts off the at the same skill level and rises at the same rate? No i dont think so, there are kids out there who take a keen interest in cars and know well in advance how they work and take to driving like a fish to water from day 1. Then you get the nervous uncoordinated kid who is a slow learner and cant drive to save his life. Proof of this? look to formula 1 most drivers that get looked at are in there late teens, same age as a p plater... Mark Skaife actually started racing cars before he was licensed so an L plater showing people the way...ok thats racing but still involves knowing how to drive a car.
Everyone is different there are people of all ages that are shocking drivers and fantastic drivers.

For one your comparing car racing with driving on the road, two completely different things. And yes people learn at different levels, but no P Plater is a good driver, as I said yes there are SAFE P platers and knowing how a car works does help, but P platers are still learning, thats why they wear P plates. I have done motor cross, I have done drifting and drag racing for a few years now, yet at 26 I still think I have a heap to learn and do not class my self as a good driver. I am a safe driver and I can drive a car, I can also get out of dangerous situations, but I am still learning everyday on the road. Any idiot can drive a car, it aint exactly that hard, but to be a good driver takes many years of driving not just passing a driving test.

But back on topic. If I was the one doing the article, maybe they should encourage p platers to get out in the traffic to gain the experience for the easter break.

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by xisled

For one your comparing car racing with driving on the road, two completely different things. And yes people learn at different levels, but no P Plater is a good driver, as I said yes there are SAFE P platers and knowing how a car works does help, but P platers are still learning, thats why they wear P plates. I have done motor cross, I have done drifting and drag racing for a few years now, yet at 26 I still think I have a heap to learn and do not class my self as a good driver. I am a safe driver and I can drive a car, I can also get out of dangerous situations, but I am still learning everyday on the road. Any idiot can drive a car, it aint exactly that hard, but to be a good driver takes many years of driving not just passing a driving test.

Very true... but on the other side of the coin, there are many drivers out there that think just because they have 20 years of experiance under their belt, they are a better driver then anyone younger then them (ie - 35 yo mum with no passion in cars, no mechanical knowledge, etc... blah blah, compared to a 21 yo driver with a full understanding of mechanics, passion for driving, etc).

If anymore restrictions get put on a P plate licence, I dont think there will be any circumstance that they can drive in.

Cant drive after 11pm?
Cant drive with passengers
Cant do over 90
Cant have a BAC (I totally agree with this one)
Cant drive Holden Cruze
Cant drive V8's
Cant drive Turbos
Has to display P plates on outside of vehicle only which imedialty brands them as a hoon
Licence gets disqualified for first fine
Only gets 4 points
Cant tow a trailer heavier then 250kg
Cant use hands free on a mobile phone

How much longer can this list get - i personally think its becoming a joke... yet what limits do they put on other minority drivers (ie - senior - cant drive more then 10k from home - is that it? )

[Matthew]

Originally Posted by xisled

For one your comparing car racing with driving on the road, two completely different things. And yes people learn at different levels, but no P Plater is a good driver, as I said yes there are SAFE P platers and knowing how a car works does help, but P platers are still learning, thats why they wear P plates. I have done motor cross, I have done drifting and drag racing for a few years now, yet at 26 I still think I have a heap to learn and do not class my self as a good driver. I am a safe driver and I can drive a car, I can also get out of dangerous situations, but I am still learning everyday on the road. Any idiot can drive a car, it aint exactly that hard, but to be a good driver takes many years of driving not just passing a driving test.

But back on topic. If I was the one doing the article, maybe they should encourage p platers to get out in the traffic to gain the experience for the easter break.

Yes im aware there two different things i pointed that out, i used it to demonstrate my point that there are young people who can be very competent drivers and lets face it anyone who has the skills and knows how to operate a race car is more then good enough to drive on the road and handle the car in emergency situations. Yes you will get better with age but at this point and in the situation you mentioned with yourself it becomes fine tuning the knowledge you already have, smoothing down the small rough bits off the base you have. Problem is some people dont have a solid base to improve on and in some cases never get a base and stay rubbish drivers up to the day they stop driving.

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by xisled

I disagree with you, a P plater is still a learner driver and is not a good driver until they have a few years experience. Just because a P plater may be a safe driver does not mean they are a good driver. Only over time a person can become a good driver.

I agree with you here but this is across the board there are plenty of people who are hopeless altogether and shouldn't be on the road regardless of age.
P platers have a bit to learn but there are plenty who are better than some older people who think they know everything

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

I agree with you here but this is across the board there are plenty of people who are hopeless altogether and shouldn't be on the road regardless of age.
P platers have a bit to learn but there are plenty who are better than some older people who think they know everything

Very true and the stats supplied may suggest that.

[TC200six]

I know such a thing would never happen. But just to think people want all P-plated drivers to be banned from driving for one day is a load of ....

There should be lower tolerance for drivers doing illegal things on the road like drink driving, or maybe speeding regardless of what licence they hold, but trying to prohibit all provisional drivers just sounds silly.

Thank goodness I edited this comment before I posted it.

[casabonka]

The other point mentioned of a zero alchohol limit over holidays. I think thats a good point. Would hopefully keep a few idiots off the road - which there has ben plenty like usual this weekend!

[NEEDspeed]

The cultivation of a nanny state obviously never looked as easy to some of these twits...and so the juggernaut rolls on into oblivion.

[anolade]

Originally Posted by NEEDspeed

The cultivation of a nanny state obviously never looked as easy to some of these twits...and so the juggernaut rolls on into oblivion.

NSW government been spending too much time in Mexico

problem with the "P" platers is lack of actual training understanding of road conditions and speed.
the big problem is with driver training schools most of these instructors don't know how to drive they follow the RTA rules and instructions, never once with myself friends and sibling in a manual do a hillstart and any form of highway/freeway driving towing not saying this will do anything to curb the stupidty of the fully sick dumbarse "P" platers.

first problem is the parents second is the kid.







remember when i did my P's with my old man i never was stuck running to the supermarket and to another suburb i did a heap of highway driving along with night raining day/nights so.

[Nic302ef]

banning the driver isnt goining to stop much, hey it may save a life but at the cost of every one else who does the right thing.

Ultimatly imo, is early driving in a car should bare no passengers, as social influernces seem to be the biggest toll, e.g. a car full of young people,

[flappist]

I totally agree with not allowing inexperienced lowly skilled drivers on the roads at Easter.

Unfortunately the MAJORITY of inexperienced lowly skilled drivers are those of ALL ages and licensing durations who live in a city, usually take public transport to work and only ever drive to drop the kids off at school, down to the local shops, once a week to the golf club and once or twice a year for a distance of more than 50km.

THEY are the dangerous ones but the problem is THEY don't know it and would not accept it even if they did.

It would be nice if, like pilots, all drivers had log books detailing just how much driving they have done and in what conditions and locations.

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by flappist

It would be nice if, like pilots, all drivers had log books detailing just how much driving they have done and in what conditions and locations.

They do if they have an iPhone 4 They just dont know it

[2011G6E]

What the hell is the RTBU trying to prove? That we need a better rail network? Well duuh you tards...everyone knows that. I notice they said "between capital cities"...what about "outside capital cities"? I see so many young miners out here driving around in brand new Typhoons, XR6's, SV6's, and other cars, i'm sure they'd all love to be banned from driving the long country highways out here to get back and see family on the few days they do get off.

Glad I don't belong to the RTBU...I'm a member of the "other" railway union, the Australian Federated Union of Locomotive Engineers (AFULE)...

If the railways want to give the public good suggestions, how about they implement for car drivers the same "licencing" system that we train drivers have to go through? Every eighteen months to two years we have to virtually "re-sit our licences", and go through the whole process, proving we know all the rules and regulations, and still know all the techniques and skills of driving a train and that we know all the signalling. If we don't pass, you are sitting on the platform, not allowed to drive, until you get your skills back up to scratch and can prove you know what you're doing again. On top of this, we have a strictly zero tolerance for alcohol, and have to be zero BAC at all times we are on duty.

I don't know what the roads would be like if they brought this in for everyone...but I'm betting they'd be a lot emptier...

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

What the hell is the RTBU trying to prove? That we need a better rail network? Well duuh you tards...everyone knows that. I notice they said "between capital cities"...what about "outside capital cities"? I see so many young miners out here driving around in brand new Typhoons, XR6's, SV6's, and other cars, i'm sure they'd all love to be banned from driving the long country highways out here to get back and see family on the few days they do get off.

Glad I don't belong to the RTBU...I'm a member of the "other" railway union, the Australian Federated Union of Locomotive Engineers (AFULE)...

If the railways want to give the public good suggestions, how about they implement for car drivers the same "licencing" system that we train drivers have to go through? Every eighteen months to two years we have to virtually "re-sit our licences", and go through the whole process, proving we know all the rules and regulations, and still know all the techniques and skills of driving a train and that we know all the signalling. If we don't pass, you are sitting on the platform, not allowed to drive, until you get your skills back up to scratch and can prove you know what you're doing again. On top of this, we have a strictly zero tolerance for alcohol, and have to be zero BAC at all times we are on duty.

I don't know what the roads would be like if they brought this in for everyone...but I'm betting they'd be a lot emptier...

I think the point of the traffic questions is to highlight the benefits of rail, and not so much the shortcomings of cars. But they are using perceived shortcomings from roads to make that point. Hey, if it gets a bullet train, or a fleet of those Asian or Euro 300km/h plus trains, Im all for the survey. It has to be better than flying.

Although, the best train trip I ever took was from Brissie to Cairns on the ??Sunlander?? I think it was called. Way better than the trip between Melb-Syd-Bris. Good crowd, nice train.

[ea90gl]

Takes years to be a good driver? Learning how to keep out of trouble is more than enough - don't speed, observe surroundings, knowing all the rules, respect the car and roads and that should be enough for the average joe. If a fella can't learn this in a couple of months driving then they must be a little slow in the head. The only difference between that mentioned and being an excellent driver is the experience - and for the non enthusiast like 98% out there, being good enough is well, good enough. Sure us enthusiasts try to be perfect and we watch and learn things about driving that makes us well aware more than the average but just because we may be like this doesn't make others who are not like this inadequate. In other words there is absolutely no reason to believe P platers are inadequate or should be banned from this and that unless a specific moron is happy to prove us wrong. By the way I've been off my P's for 7 years, I just remember what it was like being on them. And also, what's this fuss about the Easter period? Do people think the roads are empty until this magic date rolls around once a year? Drive through city peak hour back home and I'm sure there's enough traffic to deal with over any regular drive on an Easter holiday

[Stefan]

Why stop at Easter? Roads are too congested, ban them altogether I say...less 90' commos and e-series falcons on the road can only be a good thing.

[buggo]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Why stop at Easter? Roads are too congested, ban them altogether I say...less 90' commos and e-series falcons on the road can only be a good thing.

So what happens when people get their full license and drive for the first time?
Are you really that arrogant?
And if I was in a crash between an EL or an XY, I know what I'd rather be in...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by flappist

It would be nice if, like pilots, all drivers had log books detailing just how much driving they have done and in what conditions and locations.

Victoria's learner log book, has exactly what you mentioned.

I'd gladly give up driving if there was public transport that went by my work, unfortunately my closest train station is 30km down the road and no trains/trams/buses stop within walking distance of my work and a taxi to my workplace is about $80 one way.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Victoria's learner log book, has exactly what you mentioned.

I'd gladly give up driving if there was public transport that went by my work, unfortunately my closest train station is 30km down the road and no trains/trams/buses stop within walking distance of my work and a taxi to my workplace is about $80 one way.

Damo, you'll find those that flog the 'Use public transport' line (either in here or in the newspapers) are nearly always city folk, where there IS a public transport system