Tourists and roundabouts

[fergus]

I see it at last once a week here in Ruddville.

Two lane roundabout. Dual carriageways entering and leaving. Standard arrows on each approach lane - left turn or straight ahead in the left lane and right turn or straight ahead in the right lane.

I'm in the right lane, rh indicator on. Older tourist in the left lane, next to me, Hmmm, he also has his rh indicator on.

Naturally I enter the roundabout with caution, and Yep, as expected, he turns right from the left lane. At least he stayed in his lane. Lucky for him I wasn't going straight ahead.

Before I judge him senile and dangerous, are all states consistent with roundabout rules?

[Hardtopxb]

No. In QLD it's legal to indicate and change lanes in a roundabout. Can be real fun..

[fergus]

At the very next roundabout, also two lane, I am turning right again in the right hand lane. As I am turning, another car comes straight through the roundabout from the road on my left. He stayed in his left lane, I stayed in my right lane, and he exited the roundabout in front of me, merged into the one lane and kept going. No problem, except as usual it increased my pulse rate for a bit.

Now I wouldn't do what he did purely because I don't trust indicators. If I kept going straight or drifted wide we would have collided.

Here's the question: Does "giving way" at a roundabout include giving way to vehicles in the inside lane if you are going to stay in the outside lane?

Similarly, if I was going straight through in the right lane and he approached from the left and turned left into the left exit lane, he would be safe if I stayed in my lane, but what if I took the racing line as so many drivers do?

[bloggs24]

When im in the left lane i always give way to both lanes in the roundabout, far too often have i seen people on the right lane of the roundabout exit into the left lane.

[fergus]

Yep, me too. I have had trouble explaining to my newly licensed daughter that even though you are in different lanes, it is not worth the risk. Never judge a car's intended direction by the indicators alone.

[MITCHAY]

Regardless of the rules, if someone is keen to get in front of me I just let them go. Then if they are going too slow I just drop the gear and overtake them. It is perfectly legal but you are never short of people giving you the high beams and horn :

[kenz]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Regardless of the rules, if someone is keen to get in front of me I just let them go. Then if they are going too slow I just drop the gear and overtake them. It is perfectly legal but you are never short of people giving you the high beams and horn :

I hearin ya on that one

[XC_Lizzard]

At roundabouts, you are required to give way to traffic that is already on/in the roundabout, regardless of who is going where. So if you were on the roundabout before the other car, and a collision ensued, they would have been in the wrong.

The tricky question is when 2 cars approach the roundabout at the same time.

[MITCHAY]

Which basically is interpreted as give way to the right!

[rodderz]

Also in QLD they are made to indicate left even when travelling straight through a roundabout. I ignored it, it's as confusing as hell waiting for someone to go through when you don't know if they are turning or going straight

[fergus]

Scary.....

[FPV+fteT3]

Watched a person driving an IPEC van cut from the left lane to the right (straightline like a chicane) and back to the left lane straight thru today and nearly squashed an astra. Roundabouts are nearly as much fun as cross roads in back streets with 4 stop signs what were they thinking? Keep you on ya toes thats foresure. Roundabouts in NSW are like a lottery I always take great care expect the worst.

[DJR-351]

Queenslanders do not understand the concept of Roundabouts....

That includes those that make the rules as well as the users....

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by rodderz

Also in QLD they are made to indicate left even when travelling straight through a roundabout. I ignored it, it's as confusing as hell waiting for someone to go through when you don't know if they are turning or going straight

You're are supposed to do it here too. I do it on the large ones but not on the smaller ones because really it would be no point on them. I have never seen the police enforce or follow this rule so they probably think it's just as stupid.

In the ACT you are meant to indicate left after entering the roundabout when going straight, and indicate left after making the turn and going straight when turning right. People either don't follow these rules properly or not at all in my experience.

For ACT peeps if they didn't already know http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/as...ertisement.pdf

[XC_Lizzard]

Originally Posted by rodderz

Also in QLD they are made to indicate left even when travelling straight through a roundabout. I ignored it, it's as confusing as hell waiting for someone to go through when you don't know if they are turning or going straight

In NSW and VIC (and i think it would apply to other states under the uniform traffic code), you are actually supposed to use your left indicator to signal your intention to to exit the roundabout as you approach your desired exit, regardless of where you entered the roundabout.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by rodderz

Also in QLD they are made to indicate left even when travelling straight through a roundabout. I ignored it, it's as confusing as hell waiting for someone to go through when you don't know if they are turning or going straight

That is not correct. You indicate left just before your exit. That means if you intend entering and turn first left (9 o'clock)you put your left indicator on before entering. If you intend leaving at the 12 o'clock you don't put an indicator on before entering and only engage the left turn indicator as you approach the 12 o'clock exit. If you intend travelling past the 12 o'clock exit, you put your right turn indicator on before entering and then the left as your exit approaches.

If you intend exiting before the 12 o'clock exit you must enter in the left lane. Likewise if you intend exiting after the 12 o'clcok you must enter in the right lane. If you intend to exit at 12 o'clock you can enter in either lane.

[balthazarr]

I don't get the point of indicating left as you exit the roundabout - in fact, I think it creates confusion...

Eg. Two lane roundabout, two cars approach, one in each lane. Both are going to continue straight ahead. Car on the right indicates left as they exit the roundabout - to me, if I was in the car in the left lane, I would think the car is wanting to change lanes into mine...

What's wrong with indicating your intentions as you enter the roundabout? Left, straight ahead or right?

The way some people drive, I don't want them trying to fiddle with the indicator stalk as they're part way through a turn - enough people straddle lanes as they turn as it is.

[Geez Louise]

Originally Posted by balthazarr

What's wrong with indicating your intentions as you enter the roundabout? Left, straight ahead or right?

So you want people to indicate their intent when they get on the roundabout...How would you know when they are getting off?

What if they indicate right when they first get on the roundabout and they want to get off at the third exit?

I think this would confuse already confused motorists, unless I have misread your post.

I read somewhere awhile ago (I think it was only 10%, could have been lower) of road users knew the road rules when it came to roundabouts. Scary stuff!

[NC1183]

Got a nice fun one here in Moree, as you come down off the main bridge heading south, the round-about is "semi" two lane, in that the approach is two lanes wide and marked left turn only and straight through/right turn, to give the road-trains that use it enough room to get through.

The fun happens when you get QLDer's and Vic's heading south, they get in the left turn only lane and try and go straight through. I nearly put one guy into the service station on the south-eat corner.

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

So you want people to indicate their intent when they get on the roundabout...How would you know when they are getting off?

You can look at their face, I guess. :

You don't need to know which exit they are using - cars should never be in a position to cross one another's paths. Left lane - you either go straight or left; Right lane - you either go straight or right.

Cars looking to enter the roundabout need to give way to cars already on the roundabout so, again, there should never be a position where cars must cross paths.

What if they indicate right when they first get on the roundabout and they want to get off at the third exit?

I think this would confuse already confused motorists, unless I have misread your post.

I read somewhere awhile ago (I think it was only 10%, could have been lower) of road users knew the road rules when it came to roundabouts. Scary stuff!

People stuff up single lane roundabouts, let alone multi-lane.

[rodderz]

Originally Posted by Wally

That is not correct. You indicate left just before your exit. That means if you intend entering and turn first left (9 o'clock)you put your left indicator on before entering.

Yes, thats what I meant, but didnt add it into the 1st post.

It's a silly bloody rule anyway, to me common sense says that those without an indicator in any part of the roundabout, are going straight. Of course you don't just pull out though, there are also those who don't use indicators but are turning

Never knew it was a rule in Vic too....I spose that makes a heap of other people too as I've never seen anyone do it down here

[XDV800]

Originally Posted by rodderz

Also in QLD they are made to indicate left even when travelling straight through a roundabout. I ignored it, it's as confusing as hell waiting for someone to go through when you don't know if they are turning or going straight

They really are confusing for people aren't they. Some have admitted being perplexed by the rules, then some that have explained they're understandings of r'bout etiquette in this thread have got it all wrong!

Scary...

[Bucknaked]

If I'm in the left lane entering a roundabout, theres a car already on the roundabout in the right lane who is turning right, I always enter the roundabout. My lane is free he is turning right. I do enter with caution in case they are going to cut across my lane. and forgot to turn off their indicator.

I thought this was the norm. I've never given it much thought.

Originally Posted by XC_Lizzard

In NSW and VIC (and i think it would apply to other states under the uniform traffic code), you are actually supposed to use your left indicator to signal your intention to to exit the roundabout as you approach your desired exit, regardless of where you entered the roundabout.

ACT is the same

[fergus]

Lots of caution, I hope, Bucknaked. You'd have to have reflexes like a cat to avoid getting T-boned by the driver who had left his indicator on and was going straight through instead of turning, wouldn't you?

Raises another question too. Would his failure to indicate leaving the roundabout excuse you from failing to give way, or would you still be in the wrong?

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by fergus

Lots of caution, I hope, Bucknaked. You'd have to have reflexes like a cat to avoid getting T-boned by the driver who had left his indicator on and was going straight through instead of turning, wouldn't you?

I always use caution. I don't go straight in, but rather wait until they are just passing in front before accelerating.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

If I'm in the left lane entering a roundabout, theres a car already on the roundabout in the right lane who is turning right, I always enter the roundabout. My lane is free he is turning right. I do enter with caution in case they are going to cut across my lane. and forgot to turn off their indicator.

Yes, enter with caution, because many think coming from the right, they have right of way.

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

I read somewhere awhile ago (I think it was only 10%, could have been lower) of road users knew the road rules when it came to roundabouts.

Yes, I say at least 90%, probably more 95% of drivers along Sunbury Road from the Melbourne airport do not know how to negotiate the several double lane roundabouts along that road.
They look like this:


Coming from the right side of the tee, drivers have their own lane to enter the roundabout, but they just sit there waiting for the queue of cars coming from the right to finish, because they think they have to give way to the right, and dont realise they have a lane as well. If they found time to read the road rules, they will discover there is nothing about giving way to the right at roundabouts, only giving way to vehicles on the roundabout - in other words, stay in your lane as there is no reason to change lanes in these roundabouts.

And they wonder why the road is so congested in peak hour despite well designed roundabouts - no-one knows how to use them.

These are generally the same drivers who at the next roundabout cut straight across the lanes regardless of other traffic. And many are P-platers -dont they get taught?

Here is a page from the Vicroads guide which should clarify how to negotiate roundabouts. Would be great if the RACV and the media explain this better to the public who dont know:

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Yes, enter with caution, because many think coming from the right, they have right of way.



Yes, I say at least 90%, probably more 95% of drivers along Sunbury Road from the Melbourne airport do not know how to negotiate the several double lane roundabouts along that road.
They look like this:


Coming from the right side of the tee, drivers have their own lane to enter the roundabout, but they just sit there waiting for the queue of cars coming from the right to finish, because they think they have to give way to the right, and dont realise they have a lane as well. If they found time to read the road rules, they will discover there is nothing about giving way to the right at roundabouts, only giving way to vehicles on the roundabout - in other words, stay in your lane as there is no reason to change lanes in these roundabouts.

And they wonder why the road is so congested in peak hour despite well designed roundabouts - no-one knows how to use them.

These are generally the same drivers who at the next roundabout cut straight across the lanes regardless of other traffic. And many are P-platers -dont they get taught?

Here is a page from the Vicroads guide which should clarify how to negotiate roundabouts. Would be great if the RACV and the media explain this better to the public who dont know:

Is that the roundabout after bulla hill near the quarry where all the roadworks are going on? If it is, you see people going 100km/h in the 40 and 60 roadworks zones, then they rage at you if you actually do the speed limit there. Or is that the one with the STUPID plants there, so you can't see the traffic ahead because of the stupid plants being there blocking the view? Also, my driving instructor tells me if the roundabout is rather large with multiple exits, you have to indicate out of it regardless if you are going straight.

[chevypower]

Give the tourists a fair go, gotta deal with unfamiliar environment, don't really know where ya going most of the time, unfamiliar road laws, driving on opposite side etc etc.... speaking which i just got back to the states from australia, i am at LAX. Lets hope i dont have a head-on or go around a roundabout the wrong way lol.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Give the tourists a fair go, gotta deal with unfamiliar environment, don't really know where ya going most of the time, unfamiliar road laws, driving on opposite side etc etc.... speaking which i just got back to the states from australia, i am at LAX. Lets hope i dont have a head-on or go around a roundabout the wrong way lol.

I still laugh at Chevy Chase in European Vacation

[Geez Louise]

I always indicate when getting on or off a roundabout...Not too many people do though and WHEN they do, they normally indicate right when they are exiting left!