Is this Legal?

[Iggypoppin']

I'm going to pose this Hypothetically, so as not to get anyone in trouble.

Suppose, Hypothetically, there is a large group of mates. all range from around 16-27 and love cars. They have, slowly and without really noticing, come to hang out at the eldest car enthusiests home, who has no objection, and who's wife and kids love it too. there is about 10-20 of them, not all there at the same time, about 7 or 8 are always there after 5. they repair each others cars, project cars and focus a lot on the eldest guys project, which, for this argument, is say, a KE70 corolla fitted with an RB26 and is a proper ground up rebuild not a junk pile ie: 10's of thousands gone in. the boys all meet up after work, do some work maybe a little swearing, plenty of cars, sometimes as many as 20. they keep as quiet as a mob of guys can. when they leave/arrive they are civil and dont hoon off and leave skid marks everywhere. one day the police arrive at the door and warn the renter of the household (our eldest@ 27 yrs) that he is to cease all power tools noise, no cars, no working on them, after 5pm as he is suspected of running an illegal chop shop(note: other boys cars coming and going etc. NO MONEY CHANGES HANDS) fair enough power tools at 9.30 at night is excessive but that is a rarity and its all pretty much over by around 10 anyway. My question is, can the police actually enforce this kind of order? nothing in paper but apparently they have "evidence" to suggest otherwise and when they are asked this, they say, "most backyard mechanics only have socket sets and maybe a grinder no welders and pipe benders". It is confusing that they know whats in a locked and unwindowed shed....isnt it?

[Auslandau]

Must be the week for Hypothetically speaking!

All I can say is if these hypothetical people lived next to me I would be Peed off something cronic! 20 cars on one night coming and gooing? Tools going till 10 some times??? Yes the police can do something about it in a residential area.
THank god its in hypothetical Adelaide and I am hypothetically in Melbounre



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[XR6_190]

HYPOTHETICALLY:
If I had neighbours that were causing substantial noise, and (again hypothetically) close to blocking the street with all of their cars, and I didn't know them too well (considering they are hypothetically renting, it's fair to say, hypothetically that is, that they haven't lived there for too long, so they don't know the hypothetical neighbours too well.) I wouldn't be going over and asking (even hypothetically) them to quieten up, not when there are up to 20 of them, and only me and my family, I too would be ringing the police, and letting them deal with it.

That said, on the other side of it, hypothetically if it was me that had been given this order by the police, I would be hypothetically talking to a solicitor to see exactley what the police are legally aloud to do.

Again, that is all hypothetical.

Originally Posted by auslandau

Must be the week for Hypothetically speaking!

All I can say is if these hypothetical people lived next to me I would be Peed off something cronic! 20 cars on one night coming and gooing? Tools going till 10 some times??? Yes the police can do something about it in a residential area.
THank god its in hypothetical Adelaide and I am hypothetically in Melbounre

Spot on, well hypothetically anyway.

[Iggypoppin']

haha ok fair enough. however, shouldn't a complaint be made first(to the home-renter)? also, is it unfair to effectivly ban him from using any tool AT ALL at ANY HOUR of the day? hypothetically speaking!

[MrEL]

Geez Id better get rid of my welders , air compressors etc before Im charged with an act of terrorism......................................... ...............

[snappy]

Sounds like fun , No wonder they have banned it .

[Iggypoppin']

Originally Posted by snappy84

Sounds like fun , No wonder they have banned it .

thats what the hypothetical house renter said. anything fun is canned by the gov.

Also, a very hypothetical HQ is now up for sale because of this particular...hypothesis. This has made me incredibly angry. Hypothetically.

[Walt Kowalski]

Originally Posted by snappy84

Sounds like fun , No wonder they have banned it .

sOUNDED FUNNY AT FIRST THEN i THOUGHT

"IMAGINE IF THIS WAS NEXT TO ME?"

kINDA COOL UNTIL THE NOISE AT NIGHT STOPPED BABIES SLEEPING, UPSET DOGS ETC.

tHEN (SORRY FOR CAPS LOCK) it would drive me mad.

Don't know about police powers but common sense would tell me shut the noise off early.

Maybe apologise to neighbours and tell them what's actually happening. Do it nicely. They have a right to a quiet environment in a residential area.

It is not the responsibility of neighbours to approach us before they dob us in for working on our cars, its our responsibilty to conduct our affairs in such a way as the neighbours don't get ****ed off.

[vanman_75]

laws on this 7 till seven in queensland i believe ,was a chippy in past life and had to tip toe around if we started early ,but in between nothing they can do grind away .

[InfernoSR]

Originally Posted by vanman_75

laws on this 7 till seven in queensland i believe ,was a chippy in past life and had to tip toe around if we started early ,but in between nothing they can do grind away .

Here in Bathurst, we have 6.30am to 6.30pm in a Commerical zoned area... not fun!... but its only due to the residential houses across the road... :

[mrbaxr6t]

I could go on and on and on about the behavior of the next generation (punching a security guard in the back of the head - wtf?) But the point is that people don't like people coming and going late at night and to be honest I don't either. The younger generation as much as I hate to say it seem to have no concept of cause and effect. If you want to do what you do where you are doing it tone it down soundproof the shed and make no noise outside it. Simple really...

These "nights" turn into parties/****ups every fri/sat night? I think the safe money is a YES. There is 20 of you do some maths and spend one night at each house and start again - Spread the "noise" out across every bodies' homes this will mean each house will have maybe two nights a month at most with a gathering.

[Nickxb]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I could go on and on and on about the behavior of the next generation (punching a security guard in the back of the head - wtf?) But the point is that people don't like people coming and going late at night and to be honest I don't either. The younger generation as much as I hate to say it seem to have no concept of cause and effect.

Generalise much?

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

There is 20 of you do some maths and spend one night at each house and start again - Spread the "noise" out across every bodies' homes

They probably can't congregate on rotation at some of their other mates homes because some of their parents would not tolerate their comings and goings in their own house never alone their own neighbourhood either!

[Iggypoppin']

hmm...a solicitor is a bit steep in the economic times...hypothetical home renter has basically done something he didnt want to do, and thats remove all his mates from doing this stuff. now they're hunting for a hypothetical workshop to joint rent!

[Captain Stubing]

You'd have to look up your local "Noise Abatement Act' (or similar) for your state, to see how your hypothetical situation fits in. That should give you any times you couldn't make hypothetic noise, and the type of hypothetic noise you could make i.e. natural noise vs electrically powered noise. (Talking loudly may be okay, but a quieter Triple J may be illegal!)

[Iggypoppin']

ok Im going to just make sure the actual reason for a "verbal ban" is made clear..apparent suspicion of an Illegal mechanics workshop! the belief is they are making a solid enough income from out of hours work which doesnt actually happen. can they "ban" because of this.

[JC]

Originally Posted by SLWXR6

ok Im going to just make sure the actual reason for a "verbal ban" is made clear..apparent suspicion of an Illegal mechanics workshop! the belief is they are making a solid enough income from out of hours work which doesnt actually happen. can they "ban" because of this.

Yes they can - it's a residential zone, not an industrial zone, so you actually need a permit to carry on a business at home. Now, you may think that just because money is not changing hands, that no business is being done - but you are exchanging labour, and with 20 cars there every night, I'd classify it as a business (certainly, it's not residential).

And you can stuff your hypothetical where the sun don't shine. Grow up and have some understanding for what it means to be a member of a neighbourhood - and working every night among 8 to 20 "guys" is not what normal neighbours do; the noise would annoy most, and the number of you there would also intimidate most. But of course, you are only thinking of yourselves - how Gen Y of you; it must be someone else's problem.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by JC

Yes they can - it's a residential zone, not an industrial zone, so you actually need a permit to carry on a business at home. Now, you may think that just because money is not changing hands, that no business is being done - but you are exchanging labour, and with 20 cars there every night, I'd classify it as a business (certainly, it's not residential).

And you can stuff your hypothetical where the sun don't shine. Grow up and have some understanding for what it means to be a member of a neighbourhood - and working every night among 8 to 20 "guys" is not what normal neighbours do; the noise would annoy most, and the number of you there would also intimidate most. But of course, you are only thinking of yourselves - how Gen Y of you; it must be someone else's problem.

carrying on a business without money hey? some business that'd be!
let me know how that works out for you!
and stop whinging about young blokes would you? member of a neighbourhood? a neighbourhood is made up of people who should be able to do damn well what they want to provided it doesn't affect the others detrimentally. I don't think your jealousy counts as a detrimental effect! :
Since when was Australia all about rules and not about people?!

[JC]

Originally Posted by xy500

carrying on a business without money hey? some business that'd be!
let me know how that works out for you!
and stop whinging about young blokes would you? member of a neighbourhood? a neighbourhood is made up of people who should be able to do damn well what they want to provided it doesn't affect the others detrimentally. I don't think your jealousy counts as a detrimental effect! :
Since when was Australia all about rules and not about people?!

Unde 25 too, are we?

Most mature, decent people have regard to others.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by JC

Unde 25 too, are we?

Most mature, decent people have regard to others.

Get a clue mate, over 1000 and know everything do we?
Age is no measure of a person, and maturity seems to have no effect on regard for others in my neighbourhood. And if oldies are so great to live with why don't you move into a retirement home?

[Stattic]

well they have no proof...

[snappy]

The would need proof to stop anything i would have thought . Just buy your neighbours a slab tell them you not dealing drugs just fixing a car and invite him around he is probly jelous.
Or go to you closest centrelink and find out about legal aid . I used it before in simple cases . Cost me nothing and got the job done .

sorry i forgot hypothetically

[Iggypoppin']

they believe that the numerous complaints of cars coming and going(we attribute this to the project cars, also some of the guys have a habit of buying and selling a lot) coupled with the pretty shmick dailys we all have, is just about enough. proof of money(of which there is none) is what they want. but for now it is effectively illegal to work on a car there.
hypo.

[snappy]

Since when is numourous cars coming and going illegal . Better make a complaint about that taxi rank in town .

Bugger them what can they do . Fine you for having to many friends. (hypothetically)

[Iggypoppin']

hmmm. its obvious this is someone i am pretty good mates with. its very very hard to deal with, everything was routine and now police are there twice so far this week, they arent being easy to deal with and we have been politely asked to leave....but why?? we have TECHNICALLY done nothing illegal, and the noise? more than happy to be quieter..but this is stupid.

[snappy]

Its is stupid maybe get your mates to carpool or somthing.
Get a decibel reader see what you get it to .
Sound proof the shed wall , amazing what some rock wool insulation a sheet of plaster will do.
I can't think of any laws you are braking unless your very loud in late hours . But you probly could get evicted by your landlord well ask to leave.

[Iggypoppin']

Carpooling is out because of erratic work finish times as well as other things. I just think this is ridiculous. a simple "not so much noise boys" and maybe "few too many cars, tone it down" would have been plenty. But they accuse us of running a workshop etc and that really was uncalled for.

[snappy]

Get all your mates to chuck in some cash ($20 a week) rent a small shed in a industrial area . That is what the bikie clubs do

[snappy]

innocent till proven guilty

[Iggypoppin']

I like you snappy. Best ideas I've heard in ages.