What rights do i have

[falcon_6]

My daily driver a BF MK2 TURBO UTE RIPCURL IN BREEZE which is only 7 months old has sustained so far over 20,000 dollars in damage, due to a lovely old lady hitting me from behind at 60km/h.

Anyway I have been fighting with NRMA for 2 weeks now (considering the accident was 3 weeks ago) regarding my ute because they had no idea whether to total loss it or repair (not my choice in the end as i discovered).

2 day,s go they finally approved the repair and I,m concerned about NRMA shortcuts and prices given to the repairer.

Now what are my rights in regarding to how the repairer finishes my ute and if NRMA are cutting costs?

What do I do?

I am from the trade and basically have told both parties where I stand and will not take any and will not accept a poorly finished ute.

[gu4800]

I believe that they have to return it to the condition it was in prior to the accident - no more, no less.

However, it as at their discretion as to whether new or used parts are used.

Cheers

Dan

[Jason[98.EL]]

just that

keep taking it back to the repairer if you are not happy

when my el got hit i took it back 5 times for little things

nrma will should not pay the repairer till you are happy thats what shannons did for me

i still have a small issue with mine but i am not sure what to do

jason

[GS608]

once its been in a crash its never going to be the same, id say get it fixed to the extent that its not noticeable that its had a prang, then offload it. if you can't do that, just keep taking it back till you're happy with it i suppose

[b2tf]

NRMA are a bugger of a company to deal with in my experience - the fact that they cannot seem to decide whether yours should be written off or not proves it. A decent accessor can make the call typically on the spot.

I had a car insured with them before I had the ute, and the smash repairer told me a few things about them that basically made me cancel the policy the moment I got the car back, namely that NRMA prefer to repair instead of replace (so if yer bumper's stuffed, no new bumper, rather they will just plastic weld it etc), and they will also allow (and sometimes specify) the use of secondhand parts. Now how true that is I dont know and I didnt allow any of it to happen to my car, but it's definitely worth asking your repairer the question, and check what your policy says in the fine print.

Regardless of which company you insure with, t\you do have a right of return if you are not happy with the work, you should also have the right to choose which repairer does the work for you. NRMA did, at the time I had my claim, offer a lifetime warranty/guarantee on their repairs, so it would pay to check and see if this is still the case. If it is, you can take it back as many times as you like but be warned that they will only ever repair things a second time if you can a) show that it is a crap job, b) prove it was done during the initial repair, and c) not done by yourself after you get it back from the original repair job.

[J_Tank]

Probably because it's Breeze. Ford's most popular colour ever.

[Sorted]

Being less that 12 months old I would assume NRMA have a new for old replacement of vehicle..... who knows they are as dodgy as RACV are............. Yes I despise them both!!

The plus factor you have here is that you have a third party that is at fault, who is their insurer???

As their insurer may be more willing to write your vehicle off than NRMA.

What NRMA would of worked out is what salvage dollar figure then can get for the wreck, how much it will cost the to buy a Brand New Vehicle of the Same Make and Model with the Same Accessories that were noted on the policy.

At the end of the day if its cheaper for them to write it off and replace it with a new vehicle they will, if its cheaper for them to repair it then they will take this option

You have a bargaining tool where the third party is at fault and will be up for the costs, all you have to do is hope they are insured and deemed at fault then you may be able them to swing it over to be written off

Get a Independent assessor to assess your vehicle and write a report if $20,000 is actually going to repair you car

FACT when they quote $20,000 this will not be the total costs of repairs, this is an estimate cost, they may still find other damage when they pull apart the car that will add to repair costs which they have not quoted on.

Your $20,000 may blow out to $25,000 after which its too late to opt for the new for old replacement vehicle and whe you sell your vehicle it will depreciate the value due to such a huge damage bill

[NC1183]

With the comment made about it being the repair's choice on whether to use new or aftermarket parts, i was told that for vehicals under 10 or 5 years old, new parts have to be used, from 5 or 10 (whatever it is) they can use aftermarket parts and then theres another age limit then you are allowed to use secondhand parts

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by DRHEMI

You have a bargaining tool where the third party is at fault and will be up for the costs, all you have to do is hope they are insured and deemed at fault then you may be able them to swing it over to be written off

Its not really up to the old lady's insurance company (or herself if she doesn't have comprehensive insurance) to decide if his car is a write off or not. If his policy is with the nrma then its their decision.
In fact, if he has comprehensive insurance it should be irrelevant what kind of insurance she has if any.

I'm assuming she is the at fault driver, thats how it sounded anyway.

[woodsy109]

Originally Posted by ken2903

Its not really up to the old lady's insurance company (or herself if she doesn't have comprehensive insurance) to decide if his car is a write off or not. If his policy is with the nrma then its their decision.
In fact, if he has comprehensive insurance it should be irrelevant what kind of insurance she has if any.

I'm assuming she is the at fault driver, thats how it sounded anyway.

Wrong. You can do it that way but because she was at fault, you can claim on her insurance, if she has it and is cooperative. You claim on your insurance when they other party doesn't have insurance, or is disputing the claim. In that case your insurance company would then chase them up for the money.

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by woodsy109

Wrong. You can do it that way but because she was at fault, you can claim on her insurance, if she has it and is cooperative. You claim on your insurance when they other party doesn't have insurance, or is disputing the claim. In that case your insurance company would then chase them up for the money.

I've never heard of that before and i sure as hell wouldn't trust someone else or their insurance company to pay up. Whats the point of having insurance if you aren't going to use it when you have an accident?

[Yaw]

Originally Posted by woodsy109

Wrong. You can do it that way but because she was at fault, you can claim on her insurance, if she has it and is cooperative. You claim on your insurance when they other party doesn't have insurance, or is disputing the claim. In that case your insurance company would then chase them up for the money.

THIS IS WRONG

Now before you jump up and down, read what I have to say.
The other persons insurance company does NOT have to repair your car. Thier only OBLIGATION UNDER LAW is to compensate your loss after you mitigate your loss. DO NOT confuse this with the fact that most insurers will offer thier services to repair your car...THEY DO NOT HAVE TO!!!!!

What they are perfectly in thier rights to do is say to you, get a quote, send it to us along with a letter of demand, Our assessor will look at the repair (either already done and paid for or just quoted) and adjust the quote to what is fair and reasonable, Then send you a realese form that you sign basically saying once we pay you $xxxx you have no further claim to this and then pay you out the fair and reasonable amount. (that way they do not have to worry about gauranteeing the work. any issue you have from there is your problem.

So once again to clarify what I have said, THE OTHER PERSONS INSURANCE COMPANY ONLY NEEDS TO COMPENSATE YOUR LOSS-----NOT REPAIR YOUR VEHICLE>

[FrogInASock]

Yair, I'm being picky, but...

NRMA Insurance is NOT the same company as NRMA (Road Service, holiday bookings, all that stuff). The insurance arm was bought a few years ago by Insurance Australia Group, who also own CGU.

A friend used to be in the accident repair industry in Wollongong. He got out while the going was good, but saw colleagues wrung dry by NRMA Insurance.

[Yaw]

This is taken from the NRMA Product disclosure statement on page 55:

The Motor Vehicle Insurance and
Repair Industry Code of Conduct
Information for you
NRMA Insurance may authorise
the use of quality non-mechanical
reusable parts or non-genuine
parts. Our policy is to do this only
when this:
• is consistent with the age and
condition of the vehicle
• does not affect the safety or the
structural integrity of the vehicle
• complies with the vehicle
manufacturer’s specifications
and applicable Australian Design
Rules
• does not adversely affect the
post-repair appearance of the
vehicle
• does not void or affect the
warranty provided by the vehicle
manufacturer
Generally, we do not authorise the
use of reusable parts for the repair
of any motor vehicle that is less than
three years old.
In repairing your vehicle, we may
arrange for a part of the repair to
be carried out by a specialist service
provider, for example windscreen
repairs.
Continued next column
We offer a lifetime guarantee on the
workmanship of repairs we authorise.
For more information see page 71
You may choose your own repairer. For
more information, see the ‘Repairing
your vehicle’ section on pages 70-71
Our commitment to you
We support the code and are committed
to continually reviewing our operations
to ensure compliance.

This is taken from page 6 of the PDS:
Accidental damage
✓ Comprehensive
✓ Touring Caravan or Trailer
If your vehicle suffers accidental
damage or damage caused by a
collision
we will
decide whether to
 repair your vehicle, or
 replace your vehicle, or
 pay you the cost of repairing
your vehicle, or
 pay you
• the agreed value, or
• the market value
depending on the cover shown on
your current Certificate of Insurance

So your answer in short is NRMA can choose at THIER discretion to use second hand parts however generally for a vehicle less than 3 years old this is not the case, and you get a life time warranty on workmanship of repairs they authorise. They also have discretion over wether to repair or pay the sum insured or in this case replace the vehicle.

Product disclosure statements are easy enough to find on the net, they are your best source of information and they are what your insurer MUST abide by.

This is why they ALWAYS, ALWAYS say consider the PDS before making a descion about taking out the insurance.

You are ALWAYS best off going through your own insurer and getting any benifits your policy offers. A third party insurer would most likley come up with the same descion your own insurer has as they would look at all the same determining facts.

[King Nothing]

Regarding lifetime warranty, be very careful. In your case it should be ok, but if anyone ever has a cheaper accident be careful. I had 2 small accidents in a short space of time (one my fault, one not). They (NRMA) told me to pay the repairer direct for the portion I was at fault for. I had all sorts of trouble with the repairer, complained, and NRMA told me that the lifetime warranty is for AUTHOIRISED REPAIRS with the REPAIRER, NOT the NRMA! So if the repairer went out of business, too bad for me. And in their view, I had authorised the repairs (not the nrma!) because I had paid them, not the nrma. Lesson: Pay the nrma, then they authorise the repair, not yourself. Bastards.

[fmc351]

Doesnt help now, but you have the right to change insurer if youre not happy with them.

[Nickxb]

Also another view, if you are not happy with the repairs and the insurer refuses to have the vehicle re-repaired, you will be able to ask for an internal dispute review.

Once the internal review is complete if you are not satisfied ask for a final decision letter and contact the insurance ombudsman. They are a government authority and may be able to review it for you.

However before doing any of this, get your own quote from your own repairer. Even if their quote is cheaper, you can cross check the scope of works and make sure both repairers are going to repair the same things.

Hope this helps

Nick

[Ridin-High]

falcon 6, doesn't NRMA let you choose who u want to repair ur car? Their are some good smash repair mobs around.

free plug for kingsgrove smash repairs

[LTDHO]

I love reading these 'insurance threads' great laugh.. (except those who do know their stuff.)

[gtfpv]

you have right of repairer in this case, so go and talk to the panel beater of your choice, and disguss it with him. you will get one that looks after you. the nrma have no right on what parts go on the car. the car is relatively new anyway.

[gtfpv]

also if possible , speak to the assessor.

[3vXT]

^^^ But how can he make a claim through someone elses insurance policy? He doesn't have a contract with them, he's never given them any money.
I think most insurance companies have pretty similar rules or whatever anyway, when it comes to repairing cars. Post #10 looks almost identical to whats in my pds and i've never been with the nrma.

[woodsy109]

Originally Posted by ken2903

^^^ But how can he make a claim through someone elses insurance policy? He doesn't have a contract with them, he's never given them any money.
I think most insurance companies have pretty similar rules or whatever anyway, when it comes to repairing cars. Post #10 looks almost identical to whats in my pds and i've never been with the nrma.

If someone is in the wrong, they can make a claim against their insurance for both their vehicle and the vehicle they damaged. Thats if they admit they are in the wrong and organise it with their insurance. If not then you have no choice but to go through your insurer and make them do the hard yards to get their money back.

[bob^]

Correct, when my old car got hit, the girl who hit it contacted her insurance company to inform then of the accident, then I rang them up to finalise all the details for the repair.

[cycle myth]

There is another alternative (not sure if raised already).

You could choose your own repairer however NRMA would only pay the amount that they are going to pay through their own repair network.

You would also lose any rights against them for things like repairs guarantee etc.

However if you have a good relationship with a repairer, can get a good price for the quality of work you expect and can justify any price difference and loss of benefits this might be a good bet.

This may impact on your excess and you may need to challenge the at fault party to get it back.

If you are particular this is what I would do.

[3vXT]

If i was in that position though, being the not at fault driver, i wouldn't really care what the other driver did re their insurance. Actually, it wouldn't make much difference to me other than having to cough up the excess if i was the one that caused the accident. I pay almost $1000 a year to be covered for exactly these things.
If i was involved in an accident, i contact my insurance company with the details of the car and driver and the incident and its up to them to either,

If i'm not at fault - fix my car, chase the other driver/drivers insurance company/whoever for the costs or

If i am at fault - fix my car, pay for the other drivers car when their insurance fixes their car and chase me up for the excess.

When you pay for your insurance every year, you are choosing who you want to take care of this stuff for you when you have an accident. The pds's are available before you hand over the money.
I can't see them using 2nd hand parts on a car that is so new, I always assumed that was only for slightly older cars.

If the OP has some choice which repairer he uses, pick one you trust, if you aren't happy with the work take it back to the place it was fixed and ask them what was done, complain to the insurance company (they are the ones paying for the work), then the ombudsman.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by ken2903

If i was in that position though, being the not at fault driver, i wouldn't really care what the other driver did re their insurance. Actually, it wouldn't make much difference to me other than having to cough up the excess if i was the one that caused the accident. I pay almost $1000 a year to be covered for exactly these things.
If i was involved in an accident, i contact my insurance company with the details of the car and driver and the incident and its up to them to either,

If i'm not at fault - fix my car, chase the other driver/drivers insurance company/whoever for the costs or

If i am at fault - fix my car, pay for the other drivers car when their insurance fixes their car and chase me up for the excess.

When you pay for your insurance every year, you are choosing who you want to take care of this stuff for you when you have an accident. The pds's are available before you hand over the money.
I can't see them using 2nd hand parts on a car that is so new, I always assumed that was only for slightly older cars.

If the OP has some choice which repairer he uses, pick one you trust, if you aren't happy with the work take it back to the place it was fixed and ask them what was done, complain to the insurance company (they are the ones paying for the work), then the ombudsman.

I agree. If you get choice of repairer etc, then why would you use someone elses policy? Hand it over to your insurance company and get on with life, thats what its for.

If you dont have choice of repairer, or their insurance is superior to yours, and you still have reason to complain, maybe you should make better insurance choices. In essence, youre under-insured, and so are they. How can you expect a good outcome or the insurer to pay more than they agreed and set premiums for with the policy holder?

[aussiblue]

Under most policies you are not obliged to claim against any insurer just advise your insurer that the car was involved in an accident. Your car is your property and there are limits on what even insureres can make you do with it.

I always get several quotes (but usually do the work myself); invoice the other person on the basis of the written estimates. The other person sends it to their insurer who after assessing my car, settles with me for a negotiated cash figure on the basis I acknowledge in writing I have no further claims against the other driver.

As required under my policy I advise my insurer (not claim) and they examine my car before and after the repair to ensure it is up to standard (and as I use all new parts and take more care and time its always considered better than industry standard). It also means I have the car when I need it and choose the repair times.

Even if you don't want to do it yourself this approach allows you to choose your repairer, pay a bit more for a quality job if you wish and manage the repair contract - although a lot of panel beaters won't play as they prefer insurance jobs. You may find some repair shops will play but demand a credit card authorisation before they start as a guarantee of receiving payment.

This approach also gives the other party the option of paying you rather than claiming against their insurer (usually only for lower cost prangs) or as I have found in one case the other driver worked in the car industry and settled on the basis of providing all the new parts I needed and paying me the cash difference between the parts cost of the quote and the labor component.

[aussiblue]

I think it's polite to send an invoice before the formal letter of demand. I do that 14 days later.

[GT-E]

I have found that if you tell them you are really fussy and will not accept anything that is not perfect, will usually tip the balance in favour of a writeoff.