Aug Vfact - Aug 2014 - Merc C Class Outsells falcon

[chopstar87]

I was looking at V facts for August on Car advice.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/305763/n...s-august-2014/

and I noticed that merc sold more C-class cars (488) then ford sold falcons (442)..

Talk about a depressing, as a ford fan, our Mass Market Hero the Falcon is been out sold by a Up market luxury car...

Additional Info:
commodore sold 2,344 cars.

and

The Chrysler 300 sold: 162 cars against its natural competitor Holden Caprice 107

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by chopstar87

Additional Info:
commodore sold 2,344 cars.

Wow. Those numbers are Very Farked.

[bobthebilda]

Those commodore numbers (if they continue to drop) certainly dont bode well for Holden lasting out til 2017. With the Ute selling just over 400, and the Caprice circa 100 last month (havent seen any cruze figures yet, but put a guess at 1300 or so for the month), the total made for the l Iocal market is just over 4000 per month. Not to mention the cruze cant be doing them any favours at all, and they must be l Iosing a bucket load for each car. It certainly will be a case ( as has been mentioned a few times in the last few weeks), if suppliers are going to be able to keep going at these l Iow build rates.

[Bent8]

I guess the move from large to small cars is really picking up across all segments now.. but let's see if the trend continues when the FG X is released.

If you ask me, the new 2015 C-class doesn't look that great next to the new Falcon.

[Alan D Segal]

Originally Posted by Bent8

If you ask me, the new 2015 C-class doesn't look that great next to the new Falcon.

image

image

No not that great... Amazing

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bent8

I guess the move from large to small cars is really picking up across all segments now.. but let's see if the trend continues when the FG X is released.

If you ask me, the new 2015 C-class doesn't look that great next to the new Falcon.

image

image

The difference is someone buying a Merc wouldn't consider Ford in the first place, two different buyers.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Bent8

I guess the move from large to small cars is really picking up across all segments now.. but let's see if the trend continues when the FG X is released.

If you ask me, the new 2015 C-class doesn't look that great next to the new Falcon.

image

image

LOL....have you driven one?

I have a C250 wagon with all the AMG options in arctic white in the driveway for the missus.

a 2.3L diesel that has 500nM of torque, 150kw and sips 4.5 L/100km

Harmon Kardon 7 speaker stereo/gps/voice recog.
AMG wheels, brakes, suspension,vision pack etc etc

3 year warranty including all fluids, courtesy car free....

and it's RWD.

Great resale...it's a Merc....

[Elks]

Originally Posted by zilo

Great resale...it's a Merc....

Those days are well and truly over. A byproduct of being popular.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Bent8

If you ask me, the new 2015 C-class doesn't look that great next to the new Falcon.

Until you sit inside one...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Until you sit inside one...

image

The blue lights would look like a nightclub at night, I wonder if they flash to music lol?

Originally Posted by FG50T

Drove into Mercedes two weeks ago to look at something else. They valet parked my car, fed me a snag, gave me a glass of bubbly and sat me in a chair to talk about the new C before I could barely get a word in. They moved me to another office after I said I was looking for ML63 Wouldn't surprise me if they were out of stock already

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[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Until you sit inside one...

image

Maybe if the C class engineers only had an "FG X development" budget they would be driving FG X's instead

[2011G6E]

So...will the government drop the protectionist import tariffs and taxes when there's no locally made cars like Falcon and Commodore? After all, if there's no local manufacturing to "protect" then why keep the tariffs?

I would bet a huge number of people would love to...but will not openly admit...that given the chance they'd rather have a three pointed star in the driveway over a blue oval or a lion...

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Bent8

I guess the move from large to small cars is really picking up across all segments now.. but let's see if the trend continues when the FG X is released.

I don't think FG X will address the decline. Buyers have moved on.
Taxi fleets will float the numbers for a while but I reckon private buyers won't even bat an eyelid. Commodore should be commended for continuing its sales drive. Sales of that car will continue to support parts and service for years to come for Holden. The way things will transpire , FG X falcon will be rarer than GT F..... Lol.

We've all seen this coming for a while so it's no surprise, just a sad realisation.

New C class looks awesome, makes Audi and BMW look " last century " in comparison. Good thing about strong merc sales is more of them available in the second hand car market in years to come. Affordable euro class for the average punter.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Good thing about strong merc sales is more of them available in the second hand car market in years to come. Affordable euro class for the average punter.

Are you serious... Who in their right mind would own one out of warranty.
They'd have more money (or c/c limit or over draft) than sense.

[cheap]

Honey, I think it's time to buy a new car, you choose:

(a) Commodore
(b) Falcon
(c) Mecedes

I wonder which gets chosen?

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by smoo

Are you serious... Who in their right mind would own one out of warranty.
They'd have more money (or c/c limit or over draft) than sense.

LOL - the approved pre owned Merc Warranty is probably better than the Ford new car warranty.....
http://www.mercedes-benz.com.au/content/australia/mpc/mpc_australia__website/en/home_mpc/passengercars/home/service_parts/pre_owned_warranty.html

Judging by the number of 3-4 year old C class mercs i see on the roads I reckon there are plenty of punters out there that would opt for a second hand Merc at a premium price over a second hand Ford or Holden.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by smoo

Are you serious... Who in their right mind would own one out of warranty.
They'd have more money (or c/c limit or over draft) than sense.

You're assuming that a Euro car out of warranty will have problems that will cost an arm and a leg to fix. That is not necessarily correct. It is impossible to predict the reliability of cars that have not been on the market for long. Basing this on past performance is not assumes that the manufacturer don't learn their lessons and won't improve from generation to generation. That is simply absurd.

Originally Posted by smoo

Two years?
So you get raped from buying at an MB dealer used lot.
Then get raped from servicing the thing religiously, no doubt at a dealer.
And find out that what is common to give dramas on these Euros (diesel particulate filters - $$$, glow plugs, and gaskets etc) aren't covered. Real piece of mind.

Two years for pre-owned. Does Ford offer any warranty above and beyond the new car warranty for pre-owned cars?

In any event, people who buy these cars expect to pay more. If they're rich enough to afford a Mercedes, they're rich enough to afford to keep it maintained with genuine parts from a Mercedes dealer. Arguing that people are being "raped" by Mercedes is a somewhat cynical view - for many who buy premium Euro brands, money is not a factor.

Originally Posted by smoo

That's not taking into account the poor bastards who end up owning them 5 years down the track. Mechanical insurance?... who can be f. with that on a 5-10 y/o car just to say you have a German Camry.
There is a reason why the value of these things drop like a rock when they get out of warranty.

Nothing lasts forever. Cars wear out over time and use. Having problems develop after about 5 years isn't exclusive to European cars.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Bent8

I guess the move from large to small cars is really picking up across all segments now.. but let's see if the trend continues when the FG X is released.

If you ask me, the new 2015 C-class doesn't look that great next to the new Falcon.

image

image

No. It's because the new C Class looks like an AU Falcon that its popular.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Wow. Those numbers are Very Farked.

70% of the market segment is pretty good IMO

Falcon sales will have to increase around 500% just to match those "very ****** sales numbers.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Chopped

70% of the market segment is pretty good IMO

Falcon sales will have to increase around 500% just to match those "very ****** sales numbers.

It's not about market or segment share. It's about the billion they spent on a model that's only going to be around a few years and selling jack squat what it needs to pay itself off......

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

It's not about market or segment share. It's about the billion they spent on a model that's only going to be around a few years and selling jack squat what it needs to pay itself off......

Lol, you should get a job working in GM's accountancy dept, your about the only person who cares.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

It's not about market or segment share. It's about the billion they spent on a model that's only going to be around a few years and selling jack squat what it needs to pay itself off......

Just remember YOU are a buyer, you are not GM. So why do you care ?
(I highly doubt you have GM shares)

You bought your G6ET because it is a great mix of niceties and power not because Ford spent less than GM developing it.

If GM spent too much making the VF then it is a win for the buyer, not sure why you don't see that. Their loss, your gain.
I think most people in here wished the FGX would have had a new interior just like the VF got to complete the package.

The VF is doing very well compared to the rest of the large car segment.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Just remember YOU are a buyer, you are not GM. So why do you care ?
(I highly doubt you have GM shares)

You bought your G6ET because it is a great mix of niceties and power not because Ford spent less than GM developing it.

If GM spent too much making the VF then it is a win for the buyer, not sure why you don't see that. Their loss, your gain.
I think most people in here wished the FGX would have had a new interior just like the VF got to complete the package.

The VF is doing very well compared to the rest of the large car segment.

yeah but surely the emphasis should be whether they are making a profit on each car, not how many cars they sell............... selling hundreds of thousands of cars at a loss is not doing so well ???

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

It's not about market or segment share. It's about the billion they spent on a model that's only going to be around a few years and selling jack squat what it needs to pay itself off......

By the time they all close it will have been on sale for around 2 more years than FGX & Ford is still spending a lot of money for a model only selling 500 units & only selling for 18 months. As a percentage of money spent vs. units sold over number of years on sale, I'd say Holden & Ford have spent the same amount of money & will make the same amount of losses. They are both pretty bad business models if you ask me!!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by tempted

It managed to sell almost 6 times the number of Falcons, yet the VF numbers are farked?
I think the numbers are fairly respectable, taking into account the slump in demand for large cars and the fact that it was a slow month across the board for most manufacturers.

How much money did they just pump into the vehicle that they have to recoup?
How many units do they produce a month?
Considering they pulled the pin means that the more sales they are selling has done nothing.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by vztrt

How much money did they just pump into the vehicle that they have to recoup?
How many units do they produce a month?
Considering they pulled the pin means that the more sales they are selling has done nothing.

They are in better shape than Prodrive that couldn't even see the point in hanging around until 2016 and walked away from an engine that hadn't paid for itself.

The point being that things aren't good for Commodore, but its all relative. Ford hit this point years ago. Holden is just catching up.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

They are in better shape than Prodrive that couldn't even see the point in hanging around until 2016 and walked away from an engine that hadn't paid for itself.

The point being that things aren't good for Commodore, but its all relative. Ford hit this point years ago. Holden is just catching up.

Thats what I was saying that it is all relative. Holden put a lot more money into the new commodore so they need to see more to get money back. What is their break point number. Do they have to sell more to get money back on building cruze here (which has dropped off). They don't sell an SUV (which is more of a cash cow then Falcon) and margins may be tighter.

Prodrive would have left because they knew Ford was pulling the pin down here. So what development did they have left to justify going on?

Is 2500 units a month enough to keep going. How much is it costing Holden to sell each unit with advertising, free servicing, extended warranty?

Ford only builds 83 cars a day of Falcon, ute and Terri. You cant sell stock you don't have. Are Holden selling all their stock or is their inventory getting bigger and bigger then acceptable levels.

I don't know what Holdens position is and I don't pretend to. Maybe you work for them but there is more to profit then sales numbers and Holden are working with a new model.

Ford probably aren't making money but they're also not sooking to the government for more money to keep going till close. Expecting money from the government is not a good business model by the way.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by vztrt

How much money did they just pump into the vehicle that they have to recoup?
How many units do they produce a month?
Considering they pulled the pin means that the more sales they are selling has done nothing.

Unless you are a GM shareholder then it shouldn't matter how much they stand to lose.

It's a win for the buyer.

Imagine how much better the Falcon would be if it had Commodore's development budget.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by tempted

It managed to sell almost 6 times the number of Falcons, yet the VF numbers are farked?
.

Seem to forget that when the Falcon dropped that low, the chopping block was predicted...

[Polyal]

Maybe 5% tops of those C class sales you could consider as cross shopping...otherwise they are different people and they would probably get an E Class anyway of cost wasnt the main issue.