Bushes/balljoints.. etc. What do more 'reliable cars' use?

[malazn mafia]

Just wondering are we falcon owners the only one who have to put up with suspension components wearing out rather quickly? What do the Euro manufacturers do to make their bushes/balljoints/etc. last longer (do they really last long.. i've never owned a euro car?). Surely there must be a way to make a car's suspension bits last longer without having an underpowered (e.g. toyota), or underweight (e.g. compact euro) car.

[mik]

lower tyre pressures reduce the shock load on suspension imo , everyone reckons pump up your tyres (but at what cost) you`ll save petrol, but tyres are part of the shock absorbing cushion for the the suspension and for the the body, low profile tyres and harder spring rates that these cars are running to make them handle now must be harder on the suspension, add to that roads are in poor condition ....there`s a recipe for wear and tear on any car, only my opinion but i`m stickin to it , making sure there is still grease in the ball joint would help too, actually i`d have to say in that respect i`m pretty happy with my au, other than replacing shockers(and they were`nt that bad) the front suspension is still fine is still fine at 160000 k`s so i`m pretty happy with that.

[VioletGT]

Im sure that any car at 160,000 would need some attention. I can see not only shocks but springs sagging and all rubbers "wearing and tearing". Being a mechanic i would not put suspension issues and Falcons in the same basket like EF and EL's with head gasket problems.

If you notice the speed that poeple go over speed humps today im not surprised that new cars will have pre-mature issues with the suspension system. Speed humps kills cars.

[mik]

Originally Posted by VioletGT

Im sure that any car at 160,000 would need some attention. I can see not only shocks but springs sagging and all rubbers "wearing and tearing". Being a mechanic i would not put suspension issues and Falcons in the same basket like EF and EL's with head gasket problems.

If you notice the speed that poeple go over speed humps today im not surprised that new cars will have pre-mature issues with the suspension system. Speed humps kills cars.

i checked the front end pretty good when i did the shockers it surprised me too , the sway rubbers i replaced even though they were still ok, could`nt get any movement out of the ball joints , but i must confess i baby this thing over speed humps and rail lines even driving it into the driveway i`m carefull, i think your right about the springs though, i had 4 people in the car on the weekend on the way to sassafras and the exhaust bottomed out on one particular nasty dip in the road, i think a lot of wear factor is how the car is treated( mechanical sympathy) and set up, plus where the car is driven....obviousely a car running over crappy roads all time is going to have a greater wear factor than one not, and........ truck drivers know how to look after their gear .

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by mik

but tyres are part of the shock absorbing cushion for the the suspension and for the the body, low profile tyres and harder spring rates that these cars are running to make them handle now must be harder on the suspension,

Yep, and 20" wheels with rubber bands for tyres do nothing for the shock absorption process

Maybe Euro ball joints aren't made in China either!

[Brent]

No doubt the type of suspension design would have an influence on how much noise and wear occurs, but I think that basic quality of components has a lot to do with it. Everything's built to a price.....usually the lowest one!!!!

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Brent

... I think that basic quality of components has a lot to do with it. Everything's built to a price.....usually the lowest one!!!!

Bingo Brent, that and the fact that you can't grease anything anymore.

I'd rather put a pump of grease in every now and again than this sealed for (a short) life crap they build cars from these days.

Bring back grease nipples :

[ltd]

I still have a Euro sitting in my garage and I can tell you some of the things that go wrong with suspension.

Make: Merc Benz
Model: S500
Year: 2004
Klm: 57000
Colour: Silver

So far, have had the following:
* Steering rack replaced
* Steering knuckle replaced
* Front had creak so have had some bushes replaced
* Lower control arms replaced
* LHS Front and Rear hydro struts replaced
* RHS front and rear hydro struts replaced
* Hydro pump replaced
* Can't remember the Merc name but BCM.

2 years ago with approx 40,000klm on the clock was driving on the M5, when suddenly the LHS suspension failed (front and rear) which sent the car into a rather violent sort of a yaw. Almost hit the guard rail, and did a fair bit of cosmetic damage to the car as the left hand underside bounced and kissed the road a few times. The reason it failed? It's all part of some active damper rubbish they have on it and the suspension is self levelling, using hydraulic rams instead of springs.
After an experience like that believe me Ford don't have too bad a setup.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by ltd

I still have a Euro sitting in my garage and I can tell you some of the things that go wrong with suspension.

Make: Merc Benz
Model: S500
Year: 2004
Klm: 57000
Colour: Silver

So far, have had the following:
* Steering rack replaced
* Steering knuckle replaced
* Front had creak so have had some bushes replaced
* Lower control arms replaced
* LHS Front and Rear hydro struts replaced
* RHS front and rear hydro struts replaced
* Hydro pump replaced
* Can't remember the Merc name but BCM.

2 years ago with approx 40,000klm on the clock was driving on the M5, when suddenly the LHS suspension failed (front and rear) which sent the car into a rather violent sort of a yaw. Almost hit the guard rail, and did a fair bit of cosmetic damage to the car as the left hand underside bounced and kissed the road a few times. The reason it failed? It's all part of some active damper rubbish they have on it and the suspension is self levelling, using hydraulic rams instead of springs.
After an experience like that believe me Ford don't have too bad a setup.

That is totally shocking.....

In the 205,000km I had the Festiva for... the only piece of hardware I changed was a single CV... The rest was general wear and tear stuff (hoses, brake pads etc). I guess the CV would come under that anyway.

Having said that, suspension components, and car problems in general are mostly 'luck of the draw'... I'm sure ltd's Merc was driven with care, and these problems are generally seen as the result of low cost parts, or driver abuse..

My Festiva was owned from new, and had a very good life before I had an accident. I bought another Festiva as a run around car that had 85,000 km and it was a total basket case in the suspension department. The previous owners obviously thrashed it to death and back....

I now have a very low km Euro in the garage, and have already had to get almost $1000 worth of repairs done under warranty in the 6 weeks of ownership. Today a worrying gearbox problem has emerged and I will be seeing if I can replicate the problem to get it sorted under warranty.

Don't know what I'll be driving next, and am steering towards Korean, based on past experiences.

Back to the Falcon question, I would have assumed they would have had a somewhat over engineered suspension setup due to the long km fleet / taxi work they do, as well as the whole 'built for Aussie conditions' label they have. However, I don't have any direct experience with Falcons, or their suspension longevity (or lack thereof).

[chief]

They all use ball joints otherwise they would be using king pins :P. The difference is the quality of the component. Also the fact how many as a percentage, do you see Mercs or tyre BMWs rolling on liquice strips (low profile tyres) compared to Falcons? The air in the air acts to cushion the roads surface. The less air due to the lower profile makes the suspension components wear at a faster rate.

[nb_351]

from my experience, euro stuff is the same if not worse, the amount of mercs, beemers, audis etc i did suspension parts on was ridiculous, and then the price for something thats apparently superior, but yet it wears quicker? theyre designed to last 40 - 60000kms then just fall apart... like the xc on barinas etc...
my n13 pulsar has never missed a beat for 160000kms, except one driveshaft...

[Bad Bird]

Originally Posted by nb_351

from my experience, euro stuff is the same if not worse, the amount of mercs, beemers, audis etc i did suspension parts on was ridiculous

This has been the experience of my uncle. He loves his Euros (especially Audis), but they've all just about fallen apart on him. I agree with what a previous poster said about how our terrible roads just annihilate cars.

[canuaford]

If you want decent suspension, get a Peugeot. My last 3 pugs (505s and a 405) have all done well over the 200Kkm without suspension probs other than shocks getting a bit soft. The BA and BF in my family have both got knocky noises coming from below, and both have only done around the 150Kkm. Someone referred to replacing Falcon 'struts'; don't all the falcons have a double wishbone suspension, hence the stupid dual ball joints? The wheels hang off the 'spindle', and the shocker is sort of independent. What's this strut? The term strut originated from the "McPherson" terminology, I thought. The falcon might well be a better car if it had McPherson struts.

[500SEC]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Just wondering are we falcon owners the only one who have to put up with suspension components wearing out rather quickly? What do the Euro manufacturers do to make their bushes/balljoints/etc. last longer (do they really last long.. i've never owned a euro car?). Surely there must be a way to make a car's suspension bits last longer without having an underpowered (e.g. toyota), or underweight (e.g. compact euro) car.

I too have wondered about this. My BFII ute had to have its ball joints replaced under warrantly. It's crazy how they still get these things wrong.

Falcons in particular have a "ball-joint reputation" because the first Falcon in Australia, the XK, was inflicted with weak ball joints which gave the model a bad reputation for this problem. The problem seems to have become synomymous with Falcon.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by 500SEC

I too have wondered about this. My BFII ute had to have its ball joints replaced under warrantly. It's crazy how they still get these things wrong.

Falcons in particular have a "ball-joint reputation" because the first Falcon in Australia, the XK, was inflicted with weak ball joints which gave the model a bad reputation for this problem. The problem seems to have become synomymous with Falcon.

I've owned dozens of LWB falcons and have never had a ball joint issue; even on cars with over 300,000klm.
Luck of the draw I guess.

[BENT_8]

Nothing wrong with Falcon suspension.
My EL has done 180k's and apart from struts which i replaced myself and a slight bit of play in the rack she is solid as, no squeeks,creaks or groans.

On the other hand our VT with 140k's has had new sruts, new bearing plates, new castor rod bushes, new linkpin kits and it still creaks.

One of the worst things i have found to destroy your suspension is the way they concrete driveway entrances with a sharp 45* angle, unlike the old smoothed off finish of yesteryear (hope that makes sense).

[mik]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Nothing wrong with Falcon suspension.
My EL has done 180k's and apart from struts which i replaced myself and a slight bit of play in the rack she is solid as, no squeeks,creaks or groans.

On the other hand our VT with 140k's has had new sruts, new bearing plates, new castor rod bushes, new linkpin kits and it still creaks.

One of the worst things i have found to destroy your suspension is the way they concrete driveway entrances with a sharp 45* angle, unlike the old smoothed off finish of yesteryear (hope that makes sense).

that`s one of my pet hates too , you have to take a wide turn if not run up the gutter.

[Imagine_]

The biggest part of suspension wear is our @#$% roads here, with the amount of pot holes and divets, speed humps and driveway entrances they take a battering.. trying to avoid all these and reduce speed at the speeds humps softens the stress of the joints.. it will only take one time to accidentally hit the speed hump or pot hole at a certain speed and it will cause havoc on the suspension!

I've was a Tech with Mercedes and they have plenty of Lower control arm bushes splitting and sway bar links that have problems... i do know that Merc superceed something that starts occurring quite often with a stronger heavier part!

Most of the Euro cars now run dual lower control arms now! which reduce stress and give better movement in the suspension area with less overall damage or problems! But the issue with Euro cars are that they are only built now for 5yrs after that your expected to buy a new car!

So at some stage it will fail whether its today or in 5yrs time! just do your best to minimize the damaged you do when your driving!

[Rev28K]

Pity the poor person who fitted tougher aftermarket rims to the early Audi RS4's.

Audi knew that the factory aluminium lower control arms were a weak point and deliberately made the factory alloys to be the weak point in case they hit a pothole.

[ebxr8240]

Shock and spring are one, But the suspension is controlled by short / long upper A arms.. Not Mcpherson strut.. More like coil overs..

[jPod]

Between the 5 immediate members of my family, over the last 10 years we have had a combined 13 different Falcon/Fairlane variants. We have only ever changed ball joints on 1 of these. As others have been saying, Euro's are the same, if not worse than what we have. Pre-SYII Tez's are very poor because of a VERY idiotic design, loading the ball joint in tension rather than compression, causing them to fail prematurely and catastrophically, but Falcons have been very solid. A lot of our cars ran low profile rubber too, and the ages ranged from 1988 to 2008. Ford suspension systems are actually quite well respected in industry for their durability. The only weakness on BA/BF/FG variants in the diff bushings, but their failure, while premature, is not catastrophic...

[xbgs351]

I suspect that good and bad balljoints probably don't last any less now then their counterparts did in the past. It is just with modern suspension geometry and wide lower profile tyres, tyres are far more likely to suffer wear when the balljoints start going bad and hence worn balljoints are far more likely to come to your attention.

I remember when I first got my old HT. The balljoints were stuffed, but the tyres wore perfectly.

[Bad Bird]

The falcon might well be a better car if it had McPherson struts.

McPherson struts are a pretty poor excuse for a suspension design...

[nb_351]

i still cant believe the commodores have used them all these years... theyre so basic...
and iirc, even the "billion dollar" ve uses them still...
working for the army, its been a while since i worked on anything civilian like that lol

[Captain Stubing]

From what I've read, the bushes that were manufactured as rubber, have gone to polyurethane or nylon, for improved performance.

There's different manufacturers of polyurethane bushes, some better than others, it seems. I'll finish fitting my Powerflex bushes on the front suspension tomorrow morning on my Euro ford (I Hope!)

One of my research links...mc2racing.com

[addictive]

Hey, I have a BMW also and the suspension on that is crap,much worse than any falcon i have ever worked on.At my shop we found the rubber bushes are a much better choice for a longer life and less vibration.

[something wrong]

I bought some new ball joints and tie rod ends for my XD and they all have grease nipples, They are KOK brand. I was happy to see the grease nipples so i can put a squirt in every now and then.